2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[snajam]

I see Mercedes keeping the zero-pods but putting a RedBull-like undercut on the lower half, and lifting up the inlets.

So this?

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/upl ... 5-53-1.jpg

If this design was more promising, why did they ever abandon it in the first place?!

Obviously in order to legalise the side-impact structure wing with the legality rules as they are, the radiator inlet needs to go down to floor vertically (W14) or come out wider (W13). Otherwise they will have to drop the SIPS wing entirely and go back to that original W13 inlet design.

The shaping of the sidepod beyond that is up to them (whether it's slim and tapered "zero-pod" as you say, or a standard down-washing ski slope design or Ferrari bath tub design), but it seems an incredibly roundabout way to get back to the design they started with!

For Diversity

[organic]

With all of the talk of abandonment of concept, will they even bother with the planned upgrade if that is not going to depart from the mid-wing/zeropod idea

Might be better to bag the aero time from a lower constructor position and use that to develop the new concept, if that is indeed the way they intend to go

[chrisc90]

I think the side impact structure might limit to what they can achieve

Do the rules say you only need 1 impact structure? If so I think people like Ferrari and red bull have a low down one, due to the bulge in the floor. Mercedes are high to be able to legalise the mid wing. How would that work with the positioning of any side pod intakes if they go conventional method.

[Vanja #66]

I think the side impact structure might limit to what they can achieve

Do the rules say you only need 1 impact structure? If so I think people like Ferrari and red bull have a low down one, due to the bulge in the floor. Mercedes are high to be able to legalise the mid wing. How would that work with the positioning of any side pod intakes if they go conventional method.

2 SIS are needed, one above, one bellow. The one bellow is in the floor in W14, Ferrari and Haas seem to be the only two teams to keep both in sidepods

[mkay]

Personally, I’m not fully buying Wolff’s words. He sounded way too casual during the interviews. My guess, and I might be wrong, is that Mercedes planned this - they realised late last year that the W13-esque concept wouldn’t work but they just haven’t had time to complete development on the new concept. So the car we are seeing is months old. I reckon they decided over the winter to cut their losses as opposed to the past few days.

I do buy the overall story of them cutting losses and having a RB-clone in development as a plan B, I just think that work is further along than he’s letting on.

But I accept that it may be wishful thinking.

I think you are absolutely right. It is wishful thinking.

Cool. Such a value-add contribution to the thread.

My point is that Wolff showed terrible managerial judgment by letting his engineers run circle around him. A good manager would have parallel-tracked for a while despite the upfront cost.

We’ve seen Mercedes do this in the past, hence why it may potentially not be wishful thinking.

[DDopey]

I do not know what is happening with this team, but in any other situation I would have seen some heads rolling. A failed concept prolonging for so long, than even showing up the next year and than, only than after first qually admitting it is a wrong concept. Now that is some wrong inner workings of the team.
It already started with the hype they created about the concept, then the arrogance of only showing up in the second week with that design. But now with Toto admitting the wrong direction, just a day after Hamilton not having faith anymore in the concept (was this coordinated or Toto following Lewis).
To me it looks like the design is only part of what is wrong, it is how the team operates that got them stuck in this situation for so long.

[bas550]

I do not know what is happening with this team, but in any other situation I would have seen some heads rolling. A failed concept prolonging for so long, than even showing up the next year and than, only than after first qually admitting it is a wrong concept. Now that is some wrong inner workings of the team.
It already started with the hype they created about the concept, then the arrogance of only showing up in the second week with that design. But now with Toto admitting the wrong direction, just a day after Hamilton not having faith anymore in the concept (was this coordinated or Toto following Lewis).
To me it looks like the design is only part of what is wrong, it is how the team operates that got them stuck in this situation for so long.

You expect heads to roll after 1 season (...finishing P3 WELL clear of P4 and very close to P2) and 1 quali?

[bas550]

I do not know what is happening with this team, but in any other situation I would have seen some heads rolling. A failed concept prolonging for so long, than even showing up the next year and than, only than after first qually admitting it is a wrong concept. Now that is some wrong inner workings of the team.
It already started with the hype they created about the concept, then the arrogance of only showing up in the second week with that design. But now with Toto admitting the wrong direction, just a day after Hamilton not having faith anymore in the concept (was this coordinated or Toto following Lewis).
To me it looks like the design is only part of what is wrong, it is how the team operates that got them stuck in this situation for so long.

You expect heads to roll after 1 season (...finishing P3 WELL clear of P4 and very close to P2) and 1 quali? So much for the "no blame culture" merc was ever so famous for.

[chrisc90]

I think the side impact structure might limit to what they can achieve

Do the rules say you only need 1 impact structure? If so I think people like Ferrari and red bull have a low down one, due to the bulge in the floor. Mercedes are high to be able to legalise the mid wing. How would that work with the positioning of any side pod intakes if they go conventional method.

2 SIS are needed, one above, one bellow. The one bellow is in the floor in W14, Ferrari and Haas seem to be the only two teams to keep both in sidepods

Thank you.

I had a quick look and seen there is a small window for the positioning of the impact structures.

The centres of area of their outermost longitudinal vertical cross sections must be
positioned:
i. Longitudinally: between XC= -525 and XC= -475 for the upper structure and
between XC= -525 and XC= -375 for the lower structure.
ii. Vertically: between Z=460 and Z=550 for the upper structure and between Z=100
and Z=240 for the lower structure.
iii. Laterally: Within 15mm of each other

It doesnt look like they would need to make any alterations to the SIS in order to make a side pod, unless of course the SIS is longer than that of the side pod inlet would be.

I doubt Merc would need to bring a new tub for any changes they make to their concept, if we use this thread as reference and plot where the SIS are. viewtopic.php?p=1117111#p1117111

[Jdn1327]

I think the side impact structure might limit to what they can achieve

Do the rules say you only need 1 impact structure? If so I think people like Ferrari and red bull have a low down one, due to the bulge in the floor. Mercedes are high to be able to legalise the mid wing. How would that work with the positioning of any side pod intakes if they go conventional method.

2 SIS are needed, one above, one bellow. The one bellow is in the floor in W14, Ferrari and Haas seem to be the only two teams to keep both in sidepods

Thank you.

I had a quick look and seen there is a small window for the positioning of the impact structures.

The centres of area of their outermost longitudinal vertical cross sections must be
positioned:
i. Longitudinally: between XC= -525 and XC= -475 for the upper structure and
between XC= -525 and XC= -375 for the lower structure.
ii. Vertically: between Z=460 and Z=550 for the upper structure and between Z=100
and Z=240 for the lower structure.
iii. Laterally: Within 15mm of each other

It doesnt look like they would need to make any alterations to the SIS in order to make a side pod, unless of course the SIS is longer than that of the side pod inlet would be.

I doubt Merc would need to bring a new tub for any changes they make to their concept, if we use this thread as reference and plot where the SIS are. viewtopic.php?p=1117111#p1117111

So the SIS can be placed anywhere on that vertical plane as long as there are two of them per side?

[chrisc90]

So the SIS can be placed anywhere on that vertical plane as long as there are two of them per side?

Appears so yeah. However I believe it would need to be re-certified by the FIA?

[Jdn1327]

So the SIS can be placed anywhere on that vertical plane as long as there are two of them per side?

Appears so yeah. However I believe it would need to be re-certified by the FIA?

It would have to go through the usual side impact test I would assume. You can't just bolt on new side pods. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... ood-enough
Would you say this is a step back?

[chrisc90]

So the SIS can be placed anywhere on that vertical plane as long as there are two of them per side?

Appears so yeah. However I believe it would need to be re-certified by the FIA?

It would have to go through the usual side impact test I would assume. You can't just bolt on new side pods. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... ood-enough
Would you say this is a step back?

I guess it depends whether they can make the side pod work around the location of the existing SIS bars though. That would be the problem.

From looking at the comparisons, where the SIS is at present would mean that the side pod intake MIGHT have to be pretty fat, depending on the size of the SIS itself.

[DDopey]

I do not know what is happening with this team, but in any other situation I would have seen some heads rolling. A failed concept prolonging for so long, than even showing up the next year and than, only than after first qually admitting it is a wrong concept. Now that is some wrong inner workings of the team.
It already started with the hype they created about the concept, then the arrogance of only showing up in the second week with that design. But now with Toto admitting the wrong direction, just a day after Hamilton not having faith anymore in the concept (was this coordinated or Toto following Lewis).
To me it looks like the design is only part of what is wrong, it is how the team operates that got them stuck in this situation for so long.

You expect heads to roll after 1 season (...finishing P3 WELL clear of P4 and very close to P2) and 1 quali?

Not for the results, but for the handling of the situation and communications.

[Juzh]

russell q3 lap 1.30.340
https://streamable.com/dhd89z


car looks quite benign to me, just not fast enough in some sections. Slight lack of traction out of T10, otherwise nothing stands out to me in particular.