2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[PlatinumZealot]

Undercut on W14 slimpods won't work since they already lack the volume to have a meaningful front wheel wake management. Both AMR and Sauber ditched their deep undercuts even last season.

You guys didnt read my post very well and likely never put enough thought to it....

The zero pod is not really zero is it?

And Mercedes doesn't have a strong lower outwashing feature near the floor like RB/AM/ Ferrari...

So you can imagine how you would do the undercut....

But that's for another thread.

[AR3-GP]

Undercut on W14 slimpods won't work since they already lack the volume to have a meaningful front wheel wake management. Both AMR and Sauber ditched their deep undercuts even last season.

You guys didnt read my post very well and likely never put enough thought to it....

The zero pod is not really zero is it?

And Mercedes doesn't have a strong lower outwashing feature near the floor like RB/AM/ Ferrari...

So you can imagine how you would do the undercut....

But that's for another thread.

A large part of "zeropod" is the lack of a "strong lower outwashing feature"....

The second they have a large outwashing feature like RB/Ferrari, it's not a zeropod anymore.

That's why conceptually it doesn't make sense. Look at what happens when the undercut is in the wrong Y= position (launch spec AMR 22 and Alfa Romeo).

[harty71]

Yes, Ocon has beaten Alonso too last year. Ricciardo has beaten Verstappen in 2017. Rosberg has beaten Hamilton in 2016. Sainz has beaten Leclerc in 2021. Button has beaten Hamilton in 2011...
Each of these guys are not on level to their teamates on pure race pace, if the teams invested in the wrong driver by only looking at the stats they get in the wrong direction : imagine if RB had lost Verstappen, or imagine favouring Sainz over Leclerc...

It's not because you are able to beat someone with each planet aligned and most of the luck on your side that you are "the real thing". Merc should be careful.

I don't think you took much notice last season. Russell was very much on Hamilton's pace in qualifying and in the races.

H2H was 13-9 Hamilton in Quali.

It was even in the races when you account for 2-car finishes I think, and that’s despite RUS benefitting from VSC shenanigans in several occasions.

There was nothing between them pace wise in qualifying and the races tbh over the course of the season.

Russell is certainly in Hamilton's calibre and given the cars Hamilton has had, would have won numerous titles by now.

That's not a slight against Hamilton, just pointing out the facts of F1.

[pursue_one's]

I don't think you took much notice last season. Russell was very much on Hamilton's pace in qualifying and in the races.

H2H was 13-9 Hamilton in Quali.

It was even in the races when you account for 2-car finishes I think, and that’s despite RUS benefitting from VSC shenanigans in several occasions.

There was nothing between them pace wise in qualifying and the races tbh over the course of the season.

Russell is certainly in Hamilton's calibre and given the cars Hamilton has had, would have won numerous titles by now.

That's not a slight against Hamilton, just pointing out the facts of F1.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about.
George just haven't accomplished anything yet.

[zeroday]

I don't think you took much notice last season. Russell was very much on Hamilton's pace in qualifying and in the races.

H2H was 13-9 Hamilton in Quali.

It was even in the races when you account for 2-car finishes I think, and that’s despite RUS benefitting from VSC shenanigans in several occasions.

There was nothing between them pace wise in qualifying and the races tbh over the course of the season.

Russell is certainly in Hamilton's calibre and given the cars Hamilton has had, would have won numerous titles by now.

That's not a slight against Hamilton, just pointing out the facts of F1.

@harty71, No offence but ur entire post history reads like a paid PR for Russell. We get it, u have a man-crush on George. Can we move on cuz it will never change the facts that George (including Max and others), still need years/decades to break many of Lewis records/feats. Career stats are only what counts, not flashes in the pan cherry picking. He is obviously good, but to be great (and discussed as a goat) it takes a career of extraordinary.

Also @ringo made a very good post about this. I fig it should be restated...

I notice some russel vs hamilton discussions here. Hamilton lost out by 4 hundreths of a second, while running a race biased setup. It's hardly anything significant.

Both are fast drivers, Hamilton more interested in long term results and finding his way to the front with a front running car. Russel young and hot blooded just focusing on being ahead of Lewis at every turn. I don't even think Russel is worried about the car being midfeild.

<snipped>

Right now i doubt Lewis is even noticing Russel in the other car. Likewise Bono and most of the team.

Now can we get back on topic? tbh, I'm very much interested in just reading about the team working together to solve their serious problems, not trivial one-sided rivalries where one driver isn't interested in competing w/the other due to bigger issues, while using a very broken car that can potentially lose to a customer team each week. Just sayin'! Thanks in advance.

[CHT]

H2H was 13-9 Hamilton in Quali.

It was even in the races when you account for 2-car finishes I think, and that’s despite RUS benefitting from VSC shenanigans in several occasions.

There was nothing between them pace wise in qualifying and the races tbh over the course of the season.

Russell is certainly in Hamilton's calibre and given the cars Hamilton has had, would have won numerous titles by now.

That's not a slight against Hamilton, just pointing out the facts of F1.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about.
George just haven't accomplished anything yet.

drivers who beat Lewis in the same cars are often WDC. given the right car I think GR can be champion too

[harty71]

There was nothing between them pace wise in qualifying and the races tbh over the course of the season.

Russell is certainly in Hamilton's calibre and given the cars Hamilton has had, would have won numerous titles by now.

That's not a slight against Hamilton, just pointing out the facts of F1.

I don't have any idea what you're talking about.
George just haven't accomplished anything yet.

drivers who beat Lewis in the same cars are often WDC. given the right car I think GR can be champion too

Exactly my point, certain drivers would be multiple world champions if they were in the Merc, from 2014-2020.

[Shrieker]

Gj making a worse car than aston guys

ps: with the same engine, gearbox and rear suspension package

[zeroday]

Gj making a worse car than aston guys

ps: with the same engine, gearbox and rear suspension package

tbf, I think historically customer teams typically do better than their manufacturer. Or at least there are several customers in the past that have.

[Spoutnik]

[mendis]

7 tenths in qualifying was just an eye wash, the actual difference in race is around a second and half! Alonso was attacking from whichever direction he wanted. There is a mount everest to climb.

[zeroday]

Curious, by RB going on 2xsofts each for large chunks of the race before putting on the hards, does that contaminate the true gap seeing as how both Mercs went 1xsoft and 2xhards?

[Tvetovnato]

Curious, by RB going on 2xsofts each for large chunks of the race before putting on the hards, does that contaminate the true gap seeing as how both Mercs went 1xsoft and 2xhards?

Yes, true. Plus the fact that RB was probably driving at 80 % last stint (or earlier) while Mercedes pushed hard to get Sainz. So, it’s an even bigger gap. Reminds me of the F2002 dominance. Good in Q but ridiculously untouchable in race conditions.

[Spoutnik]

I don't think it changes much as RB was managing tyre pretty well. Overall it might be +70s more realistically if Verstappen wanted to sweat a bit.

[harty71]

Very poor race from the car, slow and poor tyre management, they haven't got a prayer this season have they?