2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Sofa King]

On the hards, Red Bull is 8/10ths ahead on race pace of Ferrari and Aston Martin, Merc is another 2/10ths back. On the softs, Red Bull had an additional gap of a few tenths. The best fans can hope for is that Red Bull is closer to the ceiling for this formula and there is an exciting battle for second. Red Bull will set the record for win percentage as a team and Max, as a driver and then F1 and FIA will have no choice but to reel them back to keep the sport exciting

[zakhassan44]

The season is a write off. Toto said after the race that it was the worst day in Mercedes history.

In the opening stint, The Merc's were 1 second off the pace from lap 1-7. From lap 7-14 they were 2 seconds off the pace.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmhxxHBK/image.png

There is no upgrade in the world that's going to save them this year. RB don't even have to develop their car. Mercedes still might not even catch them at the end of the year.

worst part is red bull were so dominant and they didn't even show all their pace, Verstappen was cruising around and no one could do anything about it. very embarrassing for Mercedes to not only be slower than rb and ferrari but to also have a customer team outperform them on pure pace in both qualifying and the race

[AMG.Tzan]

Russell thinking he had the upper hand when behind Lewis and asking to be let by was a funny part of the race! And then getting bleached by Alonso and Stroll while ending up 6 seconds behind Hamilton in the process!

He always does the same thing on setup terms...he goes for more downforce and that's why he ends up in front in Qualifying! His start was also bad! At the beginning I thought he could pass Lewis and challenge the Ferraris but apparently he was just pushing more and that's why his tires went away!

Funny how some people think this guy beat Hamilton on merit in 2022...

[taperoo2k]

May as well not even waste money on fabricating that upgrade.

They either understand what RB/AM are doing, but chose not to pursue it because they believe their concept has more potential OR

. . . they do not understand what RB/AM are doing and have been forced to continue to try to develop their zero pod concept, which has continued to look like a pre-2022 spec car with some Frankenstein 2022+ parts.

Or they have problems with their simulations and CFD

Aston martin is using the same components and wind tunnel

That’s what I’m driving at with scenario 1. Their tools say their concept can achieve ABC, but the on-track results are XYZ.

I think it could be that Mercedes have been chasing the theoretical performance of this concept and not accepting the reality. Which is to say the concept simply doesn't work as they think and it's reached it's maximum performance. I expect the tools are probably fine, might just be Mercedes engineers refusing to believe what the tools have been telling them. If they are going to change concepts then they need to get cracking, if they have written off their chances then this season will be one long test and development session for them.

[zakhassan44]

toto talks about radical changes being made, when can we expect these to come?

[Matt2725]

toto talks about radical changes being made, when can we expect these to come?

As soon as possible is probably the likely answer.

I saw an anecdote of an upgrade for Jeddah that had been brought forward, but who really knows?

[rifrafs2kees]

It's a sunk cost conundrum. To me, the best strategy is
1. wrap up whatever improvements are in gestation for the current design and bank the 3/10th or whatever.
2. In the meantime, start working on redbull concept now as it's unlikely that a better concept exists under this ruleset.

Re: 2) do they know how to make that concept work? If not, that’s a lost cause.

Dan Fallows’ involvement at AM cannot be underestimated.

To be honest, plagiarism seems to be the only choice. Moreover, the redbull design is nothing radical... it's a sound concept that's been quite well refined... the sooner merc. embarks on the journey the better next year will be.

[zakhassan44]

toto talks about radical changes being made, when can we expect these to come?

As soon as possible is probably the likely answer.

I saw an anecdote of an upgrade for Jeddah that had been brought forward, but who really knows?

(could you send me were you saw that pls)
surely tho they cant bring *radical* changes forward this quickly? unless the talk of already having a b-spec was (which i dont think it was) true

[DGP123]

I’d personally prefer them to give this new concept, RB like, the proper due care and attention it needs, rather than a quick radical bodge fix. Rush a new radical design for Silverstone say, and get it wrong in a season that’s a write off anyway, makes no sense.

[AR3-GP]

I read somewhere (I honestly can't find it anymore) that Mercedes already put a RB-like concept into CFD and the tunnel and that they didn't think it had as much potential (or that it wasn't any better) as their own design so they were having a hard time justifying going in that direction.

[organic]

I read somewhere (I honestly can't find it anymore) that Mercedes already put a RB-like concept into CFD and the tunnel and that they didn't think it had as much potential (or that it wasn't any better) as their own design so they were having a hard time justifying going in that direction.

If the sidepod concepts really do end up being a red herring in terms of performance differentiation it would be very amusing given how much analysis and hours of thinking has gone into it

[Cs98]

toto talks about radical changes being made, when can we expect these to come?

As soon as possible is probably the likely answer.

I saw an anecdote of an upgrade for Jeddah that had been brought forward, but who really knows?

That was the rear wing they used this race.

[Spoutnik]

I read somewhere (I honestly can't find it anymore) that Mercedes already put a RB-like concept into CFD and the tunnel and that they didn't think it had as much potential (or that it wasn't any better) as their own design so they were having a hard time justifying going in that direction.

Maybe they should questionning themselves. If their fabulous concept in the wind tunnel isn't working since 2022, maybe the concept that isn't fabulous in the wind tunnel might work more

[aMessageToCharlie]

Russell thinking he had the upper hand when behind Lewis and asking to be let by was a funny part of the race! And then getting bleached by Alonso and Stroll while ending up 6 seconds behind Hamilton in the process!

He always does the same thing on setup terms...he goes for more downforce and that's why he ends up in front in Qualifying! His start was also bad! At the beginning I thought he could pass Lewis and challenge the Ferraris but apparently he was just pushing more and that's why his tires went away!

Funny how some people think this guy beat Hamilton on merit in 2022...

Seems like you're pretty mad about Russell. Also HAM got pit stop priority and therefore gained a few sec.

[chrisc90]

Maybe Toto should have listened to Christian wayyyy back last year when he told him to "change his f%$kn car." Probably the best bit of free advice ever given to a team.