2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Stig14
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
05 Mar 2023, 20:10
_cerber1 wrote:
05 Mar 2023, 19:57
Today's race showed that no updates will allow us to gain speed in the fight for 4th place, we lose a lot, plus we have a number of problems with qualifying, speed on the straights and tire control. Management must draw conclusions and take action, but I don't see anything better than to abandon this season and start preparing for the next one. Catch up with the top 4 is not realistic!
How did the race today showed that no updates can bring them forward? The over reactions are incredible today.
Totally agree. The car looked to have reasonable midfield pace until the issues materialised. Oscar also got a decent start and had good pace late in his soft tyre stint

Stella has said that the updates in the wind tunnel makes the car "look alive" and so we can expect some positive progress towards the front of the midfield really soon (Baku). We are only 4% of the way through the season folks so let's keep that in mind before we draw our conclusions. Today was of course disappointing and not good enough from the team - the team know that too.

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continuum16
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I would agree that there is a lot of sensationalism going on here. Is it an overreaction? Maybe but if you look objectively it’s very difficult to find a lot of positives, although there are a few. Here’s what I took away from this race:

Just like 2022, the team had a Bahrain test compromised by a problem with something in the brake assembly. In quali, 1 driver eliminated in Q1, the other eliminated in Q2. Then in the race, the team had further problems which resulted in Lando reverting to essentially a test plan with a bunch of short stints on a variety of compounds. In terms of result there is very little to no progress in 12 months.

Pace-wise it’s not clear if problems with Lando’s car resulted in further pace issues, but the car was relatively on par with the lower-end points scorers. I do think that “keeping up with the Stroll/Russell/Sainz battle” is a bit of an illusion owing to fresh rubber on Lando’s car.

In 2022 they improved markedly in the next few races, so it remains to be seen if they can repeat the feat again. It is possible, for sure. It is not guaranteed.

I don’t want to be all doom-and-gloom, because there were some better signs of pace compared to 2022, but if anyone finds the performance from Bahrain acceptable then I would have serious questions.

You cannot just afford to write off 1, 2, 4 or however many races every year if you want to be a top team. I don’t think that’s a controversial statement. So if McLaren wants to be a top team, it must be unacceptable. If the goal is not to be a top team, then there are more questions to be asked because returning to the top has always been the stated ambition.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
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SmallSoldier
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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continuum16 wrote:
05 Mar 2023, 20:41
I would agree that there is a lot of sensationalism going on here. Is it an overreaction? Maybe but if you look objectively it’s very difficult to find a lot of positives, although there are a few. Here’s what I took away from this race:

Just like 2022, the team had a Bahrain test compromised by a problem with something in the brake assembly. In quali, 1 driver eliminated in Q1, the other eliminated in Q2. Then in the race, the team had further problems which resulted in Lando reverting to essentially a test plan with a bunch of short stints on a variety of compounds. In terms of result there is very little to no progress in 12 months.

Pace-wise it’s not clear if problems with Lando’s car resulted in further pace issues, but the car was relatively on par with the lower-end points scorers. I do think that “keeping up with the Stroll/Russell/Sainz battle” is a bit of an illusion owing to fresh rubber on Lando’s car.

In 2022 they improved markedly in the next few races, so it remains to be seen if they can repeat the feat again. It is possible, for sure. It is not guaranteed.

I don’t want to be all doom-and-gloom, because there were some better signs of pace compared to 2022, but if anyone finds the performance from Bahrain acceptable then I would have serious questions.

You cannot just afford to write off 1, 2, 4 or however many races every year if you want to be a top team. I don’t think that’s a controversial statement. So if McLaren wants to be a top team, it must be unacceptable. If the goal is not to be a top team, then there are more questions to be asked because returning to the top has always been the stated ambition.
I can appreciate a post like this, it’s objective.

I do think that we need to separate things and also clearly define others… We need to be able to separate the clear issues from testing to performance / race pace… The issues at testing aren’t good, we all agree with that, but they hav eno bearing in analyzing performance… In addition, the issues at testing weren’t related to the brakes (even though been in the front corner of the car makes one relate them to previous season), they were related to been to aggressive trying to save some weight on the front tire brows.

It’s going to be very hard to analyze pace because Lando was out of sync with the grid due to the pneumatic issues that required additional pit stops… But I do feel that is encouraging that Lando was able to hang with the Sainz, Alonso, Hamilton train for as long as he did… That wasn’t possible last season.

It is the first race of the season, a lot of season ahead to keep finding performance and we know that at least there is something in the pipeline and that the current pace isn’t an issue related to a correlation problem or other fundamental issue, simply is a car that lacked development in winter… The car showed some pace so at least I saw no indication that the team is at the back of the grid and when looked at it objectively, it had to fight for P5 (from a WCC stand point) in it’s current form.

There is no argument that they are not where we want them to be (winning), but the “sky is falling” is a bit too much… Worst team? No… Slowest team? No… Now, if people had expectations for them to be fighting the top 3 or the Championship, it might be better to simply skip the season, because it will be full of disappointment for them.

Emag
Emag
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Pace definitely wasn't as bad as to consider them the slowest team, but it wasn't anything to write home about too.

Overall, disappointing, but not really unexpected. Putting my hopes in their abilities to outdevelop most of the midfield throughout the season.

Aston does look a bit out of reach though. 5th seems like the more realistic target again.

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bauc
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Only positive from today is we cant go any worse than this, so from this point onwards I hope we see improvement only!
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djos
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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Well that was a pathetic! The McLaren is not only slow and twitchy to drive, but is also unreliable! 🤦‍♂️
"In downforce we trust"

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continuum16
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Joined: 30 Nov 2015, 17:35
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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SmallSoldier wrote:
05 Mar 2023, 21:04
continuum16 wrote:
05 Mar 2023, 20:41
I probably went a bit too far in terms of trying to directly correlate 2022’s brake issues with the wheel deflectors from 2023. My point was more to say that it was a problem with the general wheel/brake/cake tin assembly, even though the actual problems were not the same (fundamental aero/cooling issue vs. manufacturing problem).

I would say that compared to last year, they definitely had better pace in the race relative to their competition. That is a plus. I would say that if the race had gone smoothly they would have ended up around Bottas/Gasly by the end.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

geogate
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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dont know exactly what happened, but if pneumatic pressure for lando, surely that would be a Mercedes issue

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djos
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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geogate wrote:
06 Mar 2023, 06:28
dont know exactly what happened, but if pneumatic pressure for lando, surely that would be a Mercedes issue
It’s much more likely to be a McLaren installation issue.
"In downforce we trust"

geogate
geogate
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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i appreciate your aussie snarky hyperbole, but keeping it real just for one moment, it is considerably more likely not to be a mclaren issue. I may find out next week. I will be sure to make a grovelling apology if i am wrong

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_cerber1
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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geogate wrote:
06 Mar 2023, 06:47
i appreciate your aussie snarky hyperbole, but keeping it real just for one moment, it is considerably more likely not to be a mclaren issue. I may find out next week. I will be sure to make a grovelling apology if i am wrong
McLaren make their own hydraulic and pneumatic systems, they don't buy them from Mercedes.
"In downforce we trust"

BrunoH
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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I told everyone here. Lack of ambition brings us to this! afraid to take design risks. planning to be top 4 is planning to fail! they race to win not to be in the middle. you give this hahaha it's okay to the team so there you go, it's what you get! They can't even fight with the Williams. Mclaren is the new Williams! unacceptable! as a Mclaren fan for over 35 years we hit Rock bottom! I can't blame the engine on this one! its GP2 Chassis this time, GP2 team!

geogate
geogate
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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djos wrote:
06 Mar 2023, 06:59
geogate wrote:
06 Mar 2023, 06:47
i appreciate your aussie snarky hyperbole, but keeping it real just for one moment, it is considerably more likely not to be a mclaren issue. I may find out next week. I will be sure to make a grovelling apology if i am wrong
McLaren make their own hydraulic and pneumatic systems, they don't buy them from Mercedes.
What Pneumatic system do you think Mclaren make? There is a nitrogen reservoir which is part of the engine unit, a top up pipe that runs to somewhere accessible

Ben1980
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Re: 2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

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BrunoH wrote:
06 Mar 2023, 07:03
I told everyone here. Lack of ambition brings us to this! afraid to take design risks. planning to be top 4 is planning to fail! they race to win not to be in the middle. you give this hahaha it's okay to the team so there you go, it's what you get! They can't even fight with the Williams. Mclaren is the new Williams! unacceptable! as a Mclaren fan for over 35 years we hit Rock bottom! I can't blame the engine on this one! its GP2 Chassis this time, GP2 team!
They were fighting with the Williams. And Lando was pulling in Albon before his engine issue.

I think yesterday's result was very much engine, hence the 6 stops.

And lack of ambition? That makes no sense.