Red Bull RB19

[AR3-GP]

The main weakness of the car seems to be on the brakes. As the car sheds weight further below the weight limit I am predicting that they'll change the brakes to some extent, although maybe that's not something they'd do in the budget cap era in-season.

Other than braking I don't see a significant weakness relative to any other car. It is very efficient, good in every speed of corner, class of the field traction at Bahrain, best tyre management.. It's hard to predict how they will develop

What aspect of the telemetry gives the impression that the brakes are a problem?

[chrisc90]

The main weakness of the car seems to be on the brakes. As the car sheds weight further below the weight limit I am predicting that they'll change the brakes to some extent, although maybe that's not something they'd do in the budget cap era in-season.

I think its a little early to bring that into question, unless i've missed something during quali.

I know during the race there was massive amounts of lift and coast going on, probably almost to the extent that only very little brake pressure was needed. (hence GP asking Max to work the brakes a bit harder - presumably to keep some temperature in them)

The car seems in a good spot right now, little bit down on quali pace it looks, but the race pace is lethal. Id much rather trade 3-4 tenths in quali to be much faster in race trim

[organic]

The main weakness of the car seems to be on the brakes. As the car sheds weight further below the weight limit I am predicting that they'll change the brakes to some extent, although maybe that's not something they'd do in the budget cap era in-season.

Other than braking I don't see a significant weakness relative to any other car. It is very efficient, good in every speed of corner, class of the field traction at Bahrain, best tyre management.. It's hard to predict how they will develop

What aspect of the telemetry gives the impression that the brakes are a problem?

Oh I'm not saying it's a problem, just that relative to Merc (when they were using high downforce) and Aston Martin, the braking performance was not at the same level for RB

Of course it's hard to know RB's real braking performance with Max's driving style, but Perez's telemetry still shows it despite his later braking style + opening up a corner

[marcel171281]

There is something with the brakes tough. I always watch all Max' onboards live during the weekend and the brakes were a repetitive topic between him and GP. In the later stages of the race Max had great difficulty to keep the front brakes alive (as in: they were becoming too cold). Max literally said he couldn't be harder on the pedal as he was at the time. Also the car developed an offset between left and right front brakes.

They also fiddled with the balance a lot as the rears kept on locking, not only the engine mapping, but the brake balance itself. This started already before the first stop and he ended with the brake offset way forward, with the problem basically unsolved and even the front brakes running cold as said above.

Could be a miscalculation and wrong choice in duct opening ofcourse. But after 3 days of testing and 3 FP's that shouldn't be a surprise imho.

[Sieper]

There is something with the brakes tough. I always watch all Max' onboards live during the weekend and the brakes were a repetitive topic between him and GP. In the later stages of the race Max had great difficulty to keep the front brakes alive (as in: they were becoming too cold). Max literally said he couldn't be harder on the pedal as he was at the time. Also the car developed an offset between left and right front brakes.

They also fiddled with the balance a lot as the rears kept on locking, not only the engine mapping, but the brake balance itself. This started already before the first stop and he ended with the brake offset way forward, with the problem basically unsolved and even the front brakes running cold as said above.

Could be a miscalculation and wrong choice in duct opening ofcourse. But after 3 days of testing and 3 FP's that shouldn't be a surprise imho.

The rear locking apparently also was due to the clutch, Max said himself. Apparently on these very high grip surfaces they are at the limit of what the clutch can cope with. He implied on other, lower grip, tracks the car should be more within the margins of what it can cope with. Max practice start in FP3 also went horrible, indicating the clutch set up choice were likely at the limit?

[Big Tea]

There is something with the brakes tough. I always watch all Max' onboards live during the weekend and the brakes were a repetitive topic between him and GP. In the later stages of the race Max had great difficulty to keep the front brakes alive (as in: they were becoming too cold). Max literally said he couldn't be harder on the pedal as he was at the time. Also the car developed an offset between left and right front brakes.

They also fiddled with the balance a lot as the rears kept on locking, not only the engine mapping, but the brake balance itself. This started already before the first stop and he ended with the brake offset way forward, with the problem basically unsolved and even the front brakes running cold as said above.

Could be a miscalculation and wrong choice in duct opening ofcourse. But after 3 days of testing and 3 FP's that shouldn't be a surprise imho.

Could that be related to the rear recovery system being 'super efficient' and the peddle operated part not needed as much as it should be?

[ME4ME]

Weird. With the track being so abbrasive you'd expect the tyres to grip and the brakes be the limiting factor until speed and therefor DF drops off. So heat generation shouldn't be a problem. Maybe Red Bull went conservative with their air-scoop for the sake of reliability, or it was a strategy to reduce tyre temperature to extent tyre life. Either way they might want to fine-tune that compromise. Also it might've been as simple as Sunday being significantly colder than expected..

[AR3-GP]

There is something with the brakes tough. I always watch all Max' onboards live during the weekend and the brakes were a repetitive topic between him and GP. In the later stages of the race Max had great difficulty to keep the front brakes alive (as in: they were becoming too cold). Max literally said he couldn't be harder on the pedal as he was at the time. Also the car developed an offset between left and right front brakes.

They also fiddled with the balance a lot as the rears kept on locking, not only the engine mapping, but the brake balance itself. This started already before the first stop and he ended with the brake offset way forward, with the problem basically unsolved and even the front brakes running cold as said above.

Could be a miscalculation and wrong choice in duct opening ofcourse. But after 3 days of testing and 3 FP's that shouldn't be a surprise imho.

Did any of this happen on Perez's car?

[organic]

At the risk of sounding a bit naive and knowing this is about the RB19;

I can't shake the thought that RB has linked the floor beams to the suspension. They can deform the floor with much higher force tha aero could circumventing stiffness regulations and they can flex it opposing to aero forces.

Rolling in a corner increases the downforce on the outside corner side and reduces the downforce on the inner corner side. This increases the rolling force on the car that needs to be countered with suspension. It also increases the load shift to the outer wheels.

If the suspension is linked to the floor and keeps the floor level while the car rolls, the inner corner tires take more of the load, reducing the load on the outer corner rear wheel. The aero does expert less rolling force, allowing for les stiff suspension setting.

But maybe thats just dumb...

Every car has an anti-roll bar. The RB19 has also floor struts that structurally support the floor to a greater extent than seemingly most teams who use just stays. They were spotted at the beginning of last season. The rb19's are obviously far more refined and would be far lighter weight than early version of the rb18's but the idea is the same. Support the floor more and it won't flex as much and you have a more consistent platform. If you integrate this into the car design, you have far more control over the aerodynamic platform than other teams might without running the suspension as stiffly

Rb19


rb18

[Cassius]

Brake issues also happened in Mexico. Nothing to be worried about. They just cool down too much because of lifting and coasting. Just shows the extent to which Max was taking it easy. Lower track temps also didn't help.

Last year brakes were overheating so maybe they were a bit too cautious on brake cooling requirements.

Regarding the reliability, don't think it was plank wear as that is setup related and not reliability. Also they stated they didn't change the set up on Friday. It was probably the rain that washed out some grip that effected the set up they liked so much during testing.

I think it was the oil piping again. During testing they had a leak and they also replaced these parts on both cars before the race.

[Andi76]

The main weakness of the car seems to be on the brakes. As the car sheds weight further below the weight limit I am predicting that they'll change the brakes to some extent, although maybe that's not something they'd do in the budget cap era in-season.

Other than braking I don't see a significant weakness relative to any other car. It is very efficient, good in every speed of corner, class of the field traction at Bahrain, best tyre management.. It's hard to predict how they will develop

What aspect of the telemetry gives the impression that the brakes are a problem?

Ferrari gains time in the braking zones if I remember correctly.

I think that's the trade-off they have to make. Ferrari relies on the rigidity of the system, Red Bull on lightweight construction. Both have advantages and disadvantages, and they consciously entered into this trade-off. And it's obviously paying off.

[organic]

Ferrari gains time in the braking zones if I remember correctly.

Not so far this year. In 2022 it was completely the case though

[PlatinumZealot]

Redbull race setup would have less front loading so that's why they braked a bit earlier in Q.

[marcel171281]

There is something with the brakes tough. I always watch all Max' onboards live during the weekend and the brakes were a repetitive topic between him and GP. In the later stages of the race Max had great difficulty to keep the front brakes alive (as in: they were becoming too cold). Max literally said he couldn't be harder on the pedal as he was at the time. Also the car developed an offset between left and right front brakes.

They also fiddled with the balance a lot as the rears kept on locking, not only the engine mapping, but the brake balance itself. This started already before the first stop and he ended with the brake offset way forward, with the problem basically unsolved and even the front brakes running cold as said above.

Could be a miscalculation and wrong choice in duct opening ofcourse. But after 3 days of testing and 3 FP's that shouldn't be a surprise imho.

Did any of this happen on Perez's car?

Don't know. Watching the world feed and 1 onboard (incl radio) at the same time is plenty for me.

[marcel171281]

Redbull race setup would have less front loading so that's why they braked a bit earlier in Q.

most probably indeed.

But Verstappen's style is slow in fast out anyway. He was the fastest in the turn 1, 2, 3 combination despite the earlier braking. On many of the AWS graphics, when they compare 2 drivers over a corner, you can see Verstappen is (almost) always the first on the brakes, but has the highest apex speed and is the fastest out of the corner.