Mercedes W14

[SiLo]

They could keep the radiators where they are and just have bigger, shaped sidepods to control front tyre wake.

[AR3-GP]

They could keep the radiators where they are and just have bigger, shaped sidepods to control front tyre wake.

True, but then you have the drawback of the monocoque which they had to reinforce (adds weight) when they cut into it to place the radiators further inboard.

So if they do go to a wide sidepod, they would be carrying the weight and rigidity penalty of the zero-pod moncoque design for at least this year.

[IGOSNELL]

Mercedes kept on telling us their side pods don't have a big impact on performance. This weekend at the Bahrain GP after a poor result Toto basically tells us they are going to change concept. So if the side pods are not the issue what is the real problem with the W14?

[organic]

Mercedes kept on telling us their side pods don't have a big impact on performance. This weekend at the Bahrain GP after a poor result Toto basically tells us they are going to change concept. So if the side pods are not the issue what is the real problem with the W14?

It's likely to be the floor. James Key (McLaren TD) has also said they're changing "philosophy" whilst referring to the floor but realized too late to do anything about it for Bahrain. It's quite likely that Merc will be doing the same in the next 12 months. Considering McLaren couldn't get a basic version of it on the car for Bahrain and realized before the season ended/ at the beginning of the winter that their development direction was wrong, I would say it takes maybe 4-6 months to get a floor worth putting on the car after switching concept (at this stage in the regs) and obviously longer than that before it is developed to an acceptable level.

[Suvesh]

Mercedes kept on telling us their side pods don't have a big impact on performance. This weekend at the Bahrain GP after a poor result Toto basically tells us they are going to change concept. So if the side pods are not the issue what is the real problem with the W14?

Russel said recently that they still believe their side pod concept is the best, but even if there were to change it to lets say Red Bull's, they won't gain half a second from there. Remember most of the downforce in these regs come from the floor. That is probably where their concept is wrong. And floor is harder to copy since we can't really see it.

[AR3-GP]

Mercedes kept on telling us their side pods don't have a big impact on performance. This weekend at the Bahrain GP after a poor result Toto basically tells us they are going to change concept. So if the side pods are not the issue what is the real problem with the W14?

Russel said recently that they still believe their side pod concept is the best, but even if there were to change it to lets say Red Bull's, they won't gain half a second from there. Remember most of the downforce in these regs come from the floor. That is probably where their concept is wrong. And floor is harder to copy since we can't really see it.

There were good pictures of the floors of all teams circulated last year

[AA_2019]

They need to bin this concept and learn and develop this year for the W15 next year.

With the advantage RB have they will likely stop developing after Baku and then focus on next year.

Merc need to compete with RB next year.

[PlatinumZealot]

Mercedes kept on telling us their side pods don't have a big impact on performance. This weekend at the Bahrain GP after a poor result Toto basically tells us they are going to change concept. So if the side pods are not the issue what is the real problem with the W14?

Ground effect is the name of the game. It's 90% of the development according elliot.

[carisi2k]

There floor might not be optimal but that isn't where there problem lies. Have a look at the car in Bahrain and listen to Lewis words about how his car was performing in the race. He was always sawing at the wheel with the car always trying to break loose. This car still has aero balance issues and guess where that problem lies.

The underfloor might produce most of the downforce but that doesn't mean you can have air going all over the place above or beside the floor. All the other teams have sidepods to control the air after the front wheels and the W14 lacks this mechanism. This is clearly the area the Mercedes is struggling with and we have those lockup pictures to prove it. Those pictures show that W14 doesn't have the same control over the air that the other teams have.

I can't comment on the W14's underfloor because we haven't seen it but obviously with the porpoising gone it must be working better then last year. People need to realise that the problem is the small pod/mid wing that is causing all the issues.

[JimHe]

The key issue should be merc floor design. Seems the grid position of W14 is even tough then last year, both draggy and lacking df. I speculate the rise of floor height have shocking impact on merc floor efficiency then the team expected and cut away much tenths of progress. And that’s why toto implied they need philosophy refine.

Maybe mercs previous philosophy was to run lower on the floor and aggressively shrinking coke bottle— successful experience of their past champion era. They tried to run as low on the floor as possible and thus attacked by bouncing. But Rb quickly realized only controlled/ guided airflow above bodyworks would be useful— they rely on complex curved surface to manage airflow instead of draggy wingtips. Merc understand this too late so w14 is still relying on wingtips/vortex much in guiding airflow. When Y205 vortex was banned, they should realize things are changing. They must find ways to remove draggy downwash wings in front of cooling inlet and around mirrors of w14. We already see the new bulk above engine cover on w14 to better manage airflow towards beam wings but not enough. Maybe their new sidepod design will focus on better airflow guiding. They may need to guide airflow into diffuser (just before the rear tyre?)
I remember image of last years merc underfloor showed how simple and primitive it was comparing to paddock leader. Seems underfloor of W14 Is still sensitive to run height. Aerodynamic of is so delicate and even millimetre curvature would have huge difference. Sidepod is the easiest way for us to observe but not the key. There are a lot to do yet.

[ringo]

Mercedes kept on telling us their side pods don't have a big impact on performance. This weekend at the Bahrain GP after a poor result Toto basically tells us they are going to change concept. So if the side pods are not the issue what is the real problem with the W14?

Toto did say there is more to it than we can see. So it's not just sidepods. from planet f1:

“It’s been done in the wind tunnel, but it’s not just about the sidepods or how the car looks from the outside,” he said as per ORF. “We have to dig into the data and decide which direction to go in.”

[ringo]

There floor might not be optimal but that isn't where there problem lies. Have a look at the car in Bahrain and listen to Lewis words about how his car was performing in the race. He was always sawing at the wheel with the car always trying to break loose. This car still has aero balance issues and guess where that problem lies.

The underfloor might produce most of the downforce but that doesn't mean you can have air going all over the place above or beside the floor. All the other teams have sidepods to control the air after the front wheels and the W14 lacks this mechanism. This is clearly the area the Mercedes is struggling with and we have those lockup pictures to prove it. Those pictures show that W14 doesn't have the same control over the air that the other teams have.

I can't comment on the W14's underfloor because we haven't seen it but obviously with the porpoising gone it must be working better then last year. People need to realise that the problem is the small pod/mid wing that is causing all the issues.

Not fully in agreement with your statement. There is not much strong evidence to suggest what you are saying. There is more evidence for lack of downforce over a range of speeds. This would suggest the floor is main issue.

[El_KaPpa]

https://www.salastamparacing.com/merced ... della-w13/

[Vanja #66]

I've always admired such inspired airflow illustrations, SalaStampa are really on top of that game

[georgekyr]

I believe that the main problem Merc had was that it failed to set proper goals for the winter development period of the W14. Here and there we got references before the first gp that they had managed to somewhat reach those goals initially set. The big problem lies in the fact that RB simply improved much more than Merc envisioned/ hoped/ speculated/ expected...And the design goals proved mediocre in the end.
The W14 does not bounce, it has a very decent top speed, it is faster than last year's RB as qualifying showed and the engine most probably is at least comparable to Honda's. Of course it has problems, but solvable ones. So if RB hadn't materialized this significant progress forward and there was a battle for the 8 top spots by 4 teams, even if Merc still ended up where it did in the first GP, I believe that the team would have been optimistic with the new sidepod design on the way and planned upgrades for the short-term. I still believe that after the short-term upgrades it will be the second-best team but this is the current ceiling. The problem is that second-best is not enough for Merc.
RB improved their rocketship and simply increased the distance from the rest. Consequently, all other efforts are failures considering the results (ok apart from Aston which managed a remarkable increase in overall performance).
In a cost capped era, I believe that the only way for Merc to even hope for a competitive W15 is to copy some of the RB underfloor concepts as realized by Aston Martin and successfully integrate them in their own concept, hoping that this would be enough. Trying to go somewhere from scratch in a new direction copying the whole of the RB's concept is probably deemed to fail due to the huge lead in research RB has realized.