2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

The comedy of Hamilton's remarks is that they did in fact listen to him last year, in that he was very vocal about the W13 being hesitant on initial corner entry (particularly around the US GP). I gather the W14 is much more positive on initial turn-in. That's a specific bit of handling preference that Mercedes' design team took to heart. I'm not sure what else he's been telling them, but I don't think Merc's engineers are going to wilfully ignore something like "hey guys I want the rear to not slide around".

He said they need to look at the balance through the corner.

‘Yeah, you know what, we didn’t listen to you, it’s not where it needs to be’, and we’ve got to work, we’ve got to look into the balance through the corners, look at all the weak points and just huddle up as a team. That’s what we do.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/what-ham ... him-means/

[F1Krof]

Hmm...

[AR3-GP]

Hmm...

https://twitter.com/tarmactorque/status ... 84001?s=20

I think that every car has "DNA" in it's handling characteristics. Lewis probably thinks that even if they make the W14 faster, it's still carrying a fundamental DNA with regards to it's handling characteristics so it's never going to be a great race car potentially. That's my take. He wants a radical rethink of the car.

Classic case of engineers seeing what they think is the "fastest car" in their models, but the driver says it isn't driveable or raceable like this.

[KimiRai]

In other news, this Spanish publication is reporting that if Mercedes don't improve and Aston keeps beating them then the engines with the best numbers will go to Aston Martin, which would mean an increase of 4 hp for them rather than Mercedes. Not too sure about the reliability of the portal but I share it anyways.

https://theobjective.com/deportes/2023- ... formula-1/

[AR3-GP]

In other news, this Spanish publication is reporting that if Mercedes don't improve and Aston keeps beating them then the engines with the best numbers will go to Aston Martin, which would mean an increase of 4 hp for them rather than Mercedes. Not too sure about the reliability of the portal but I share it anyways.

https://theobjective.com/deportes/2023- ... formula-1/

Some other interesting points within:

What is known is that there is tension in the team's headquarters and it is said that heads will start rolling shortly, starting with the aerodynamics section. In it, its technicians complain that the tools they use are obsolete and many are not updated since 2014, which means an eternity from the technological point of view.

People used to say that Brawn built this team and then was double crossed by Toto and Lauda and kicked out.

Why are the tools that Mercedes have not up to snuff since Brawn left? Is this a failing of Toto's leadership?

We have heard teams like Mclaren, Aston Martin, RB, Ferrari building new windtunnels and simulators. We have not heard anything about cap-ex at Mercedes. Could this be in-line with whispers that they wanted to sell the team?

[taperoo2k]

English please. I cant be bothered to go in and click translate.

As for George Russell. I feel his input is what messing up the development. The Engineers are diverting their attention towards him just like back when Hamilton was paired with Button at Mclaren and they thought Button was the smarter one.

It's a shame they arent listening to the 7XWDC

What makes you think they're listening to Russell? And that Russell would be giving bad input/feedback?

I'm pretty sure Lewis and Russell are giving good feedback about the W14. It seems Mike Elliott can't let go of the concept that looks great on paper, whereas reality is saying otherwise. If James Allison is back as has been reported, then I guess that's Wolff cracking the whip.

[chrisc90]

Is there actually any confirmed reports of James Allison returning? Or just media bandwagon reporting?

[AR3-GP]

English please. I cant be bothered to go in and click translate.

As for George Russell. I feel his input is what messing up the development. The Engineers are diverting their attention towards him just like back when Hamilton was paired with Button at Mclaren and they thought Button was the smarter one.

It's a shame they arent listening to the 7XWDC

What makes you think they're listening to Russell? And that Russell would be giving bad input/feedback?

I'm pretty sure Lewis and Russell are giving good feedback about the W14. It seems Mike Elliott can't let go of the concept that looks great on paper, whereas reality is saying otherwise. If James Allison is back as has been reported, then I guess that's Wolff cracking the whip.

I agree, it seems to be a bit of a standoff between Lewis and Mike Elliot. I'm sure Mike thinks this concept and it's numbers is where the laptime is. But Lewis's experience says otherwise. Lewis said he knows what a championship car feels like (note that those were Allison cars).

[pursue_one's]

Is there actually any confirmed reports of James Allison returning? Or just media bandwagon reporting?

WHERE DOES JAMES ALLISON FIT IN?
There have been suggestions former technical director James Allison has been parachuted in to take over full-time leadership of the project as Mercedes attempts to set on the right direction. However, his role remains unchanged.

Allison’s current job title is chief technical officer across the Mercedes F1 team and its applied science division. He also that role for the Ineos Britannia America’s Cup team.

His role changed in the middle of 2021 when Mike Elliott took over as technical director, but Allison’s remit has always included F1, “in full support” of Elliott.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes ... 23-f1-car/

[mendis]

What makes you think they're listening to Russell? And that Russell would be giving bad input/feedback?

I'm pretty sure Lewis and Russell are giving good feedback about the W14. It seems Mike Elliott can't let go of the concept that looks great on paper, whereas reality is saying otherwise. If James Allison is back as has been reported, then I guess that's Wolff cracking the whip.

I agree, it seems to be a bit of a standoff between Lewis and Mike Elliot. I'm sure Mike thinks this concept and it's numbers is where the laptime is. But Lewis's experience says otherwise. Lewis said he knows what a championship car feels like (note that those were Allison cars).

You know what is strange? It was Elliott who was the Principal Aerodynamicist at Renault when Allison was the Technical Director. Elliott was the Head of Aerodynamics at Mercedes from 2012-17, for all those dominant machines. He was the Technology Director of Aerodynamics from 2018 to 2021. Essentially, he oversaw the aero activities of all those winning machines. His second in command is Jarrod Murphy, who also migrated from Renault in 2013. All this while, John Owens remains their chief designer to date, ever since Bar Honda days. Allison's period was brief, from 2018 to 2021, even there it was Elliott who was the Tech Director of aero. As Allison himself has commented, at his role as Technical Director, he doesn't even fit a screw.

My hunch is, these ground effect regulations have caught Mercedes off guard with very little to no experience of having worked on these kind of regulations. Even in their dominant era, Mercedes weren't the strongest in exploiting the floor magic. These were Newey play grounds. I doubt even if Mercedes change their sidepod philosophy, they wouldn't make up much ground to RB.

[ringo]

Usual rubbish from Lewis.

If he’s been working with the team for 8-9 years, they know exactly what the car needs.

Someone remind me what experience Lewis has with ground effect

Why is it rubbish? and how would you know?
The man should not be discredited. He knows more than anyone here, and even most of the team about what a good car should be.

[ringo]

English please. I cant be bothered to go in and click translate.

As for George Russell. I feel his input is what messing up the development. The Engineers are diverting their attention towards him just like back when Hamilton was paired with Button at Mclaren and they thought Button was the smarter one.

It's a shame they arent listening to the 7XWDC

“I never doubted that we would get there in the end, but there was lots of trial and error, and so much failure this year. There were times we brought upgrades and they didn’t work, and times we tried different things and it didn’t work.

“I tried so many things and failed so many times but, through that, you learn and grow. That’s what it’s been about this year. It’s been about failure, breaking down egos, strengthening our relationships, and strengthening our communications. From that perspective, it’s been really empowering.”

https://www.planetf1.com/news/lewis-ham ... w13-ghost/

He wasn't complaining about no one listening to him at the end of last year.

Fast forward three months, the new cars no good and now no one was listening. This is just typical Lewis behaviour when things don't go his way, no different to what we see during races.

With regards to your Button comment, it amazes me in your opinion the current the younger driver (Russell) doesn't know what he is talking about but the older driver (Hamilton) does, yet back in 2010 it was the younger driver (Hamilton) that knew what he was talking about but the older driver (Button) didn't. Rose tinted glasses.

Let's avoid these types of personal digs at the Champ such as "typical lewis behavior". What is that anyway?
I think there needs to be more constructive discussion in here rather than the knee jerk character profiling trying to prove Hamilton is some kind of career hypocrite or criminal.
Just like he says people need to listen to him. It seems here the fans don't listen either. Lets actually listen to what he is saying for bit. It's probably the only truth you will get form the team at this stage.

[ringo]

In other news, this Spanish publication is reporting that if Mercedes don't improve and Aston keeps beating them then the engines with the best numbers will go to Aston Martin, which would mean an increase of 4 hp for them rather than Mercedes. Not too sure about the reliability of the portal but I share it anyways.

https://theobjective.com/deportes/2023- ... formula-1/

Some other interesting points within:

What is known is that there is tension in the team's headquarters and it is said that heads will start rolling shortly, starting with the aerodynamics section. In it, its technicians complain that the tools they use are obsolete and many are not updated since 2014, which means an eternity from the technological point of view.

People used to say that Brawn built this team and then was double crossed by Toto and Lauda and kicked out.

Why are the tools that Mercedes have not up to snuff since Brawn left? Is this a failing of Toto's leadership?

We have heard teams like Mclaren, Aston Martin, RB, Ferrari building new windtunnels and simulators. We have not heard anything about cap-ex at Mercedes. Could this be in-line with whispers that they wanted to sell the team?

I am not suprised if true. Complacency and resting on their laurels. You would have hoped Toto reinvested is winnings into infrastructure, and Ineos brought some kind of injection of investment. But it seems Mercedes was seen as the pinnacle so everyone came to take and take and take until the core of the team suffered.

[JordanMugen]

In other news, this Spanish publication is reporting that if Mercedes don't improve and Aston keeps beating them then the engines with the best numbers will go to Aston Martin, which would mean an increase of 4 hp for them rather than Mercedes. Not too sure about the reliability of the portal but I share it anyways.

https://theobjective.com/deportes/2023- ... formula-1/

That sounds like nonsense. Surely the engines are randomly distributed?

Mercedes weren't the strongest in exploiting the floor magic. These were Newey play grounds.

The Mercedes cars had lower rake and presumably utilised more ground effect? Perhaps you mean less experience at generating downforce with higher ride heights (2022) or raised floor edges as pertinent to the 2023 rules?

...even most of the team about what a good car should be.

I'm sure Mercedes have not tried to make car with bad handling on purpose.

The W14 has just turned out, how it's turned out (a Buxton-ism!). Maybe the designers should have put more priority on consistent downforce than peak downforce, but it's done now: the W14 has been designed and built.

So up to the designers to consider what upgrades it needs, or whether to abandon development and run it as is for the whole season and concentrate all design efforts on designing the W15?

[mendis]

In other news, this Spanish publication is reporting that if Mercedes don't improve and Aston keeps beating them then the engines with the best numbers will go to Aston Martin, which would mean an increase of 4 hp for them rather than Mercedes. Not too sure about the reliability of the portal but I share it anyways.

https://theobjective.com/deportes/2023- ... formula-1/

That sounds like nonsense. Surely the engines are randomly distributed?

That's illegal too. FIA mandates all hardware and software to be of same level of performance and specification of any given release of a PU. There shouldn't be a distinction between factory and customer teams. Different teams might use different engine maps, but even those maps should be of same spec of a given manufacturer.