2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Wouter
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017, 13:02

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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You must be very desperate when you writing this to your fans.
Never saw this before when a team designed a less quicker car than the used to do.
They employ excellent people who now have to work hard to make their car better.
They pretend to have developed the worst car in the field.
They forget that each team can spend the same amount of money and then they still have designed a reasonable car
which was finished on the 5th place.
.
A Letter to the Fans

To all our fans.

Bahrain hurt. It hurt each one of us, who head into every season determined to fight for world championships. It hurt the team as a whole, after pouring so much hard work into a car that hasn’t met our expectations. And we know it hurt you, our fans, too. Your passion and support are so important in driving us forward – and we know that we feel the same pain.

The situation we face right now isn’t the one that any of us wanted – but it’s the one we have. That’s the reality of it. And the simple questions are: what can we do about it, and what will we do about it?
Fan Letter body image

First, we won’t panic or make knee-jerk reactions. In a spotlight as fierce as F1, people are quick to point fingers, or look for scapegoats. But you know us better than that. Inside the team, we talk about having the courage to fail, the character to be accountable and the strength to see failure as an opportunity. We have been open and searingly honest about where we find ourselves. And we are working urgently and calmly to build our recovery plan, focusing on what needs to happen short term, medium term, and long term to win. We already have developments in the pipeline for the next races – and there will be more to come. But this won’t be the work of a moment; there are no silver bullets in F1.

Second, we will keep our heads held high – and take this journey step by step, together. We are Mercedes. We know the standards we aspire to, and nobody is flinching when we look at the mountain we must climb. It won’t be easy – but where’s the value in something easy? These are the times when character is forged; the times when a team becomes greater than the sum of its parts, tackling difficult problems and conquering them. We’re together through thick and thin – from Toto, Lewis and George, to every single woman and man in the factories in Brackley and Brixworth. And we love that challenge.

Third, we will be calling on each one of you, too, to power us to the front. Whether you’re offering criticism or support, there’s a right way to do it – and a wrong way. We want our online community to be a safe space full of healthy debate, where people treat others and are treated with respect – be they team members, Mercedes fans or rival fans. We have a zero-tolerance policy on discrimination, abuse or bullying of any kind, and will take appropriate action to any comments or posts that do not meet our guidelines. And we want your support to make that a reality throughout our community.

We’re already hard at work on changing the course of this 2023 season. The recovery began immediately after the race – and everybody has a part to play.

Are you ready to join us for the fight back? If not, then there are no hard feelings.

If yes, then let’s do this.
The Power of Dreams!

mendis
mendis
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Joined: 03 Jul 2022, 16:12

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
12 Mar 2023, 12:30
You must be very desperate when you writing this to your fans.
Never saw this before when a team designed a less quicker car than the used to do.
They employ excellent people who now have to work hard to make their car better.
They pretend to have developed the worst car in the field.
They forget that each team can spend the same amount of money and then they still have designed a reasonable car.
.
A Letter to the Fans

To all our fans.
........................
I hope we get to know who is behind this letter and why was it necessary to do so. This is sport and things happen. A team that's on top, comes down invariably and there is nothing to be apologetic about it. Need of the hour is to pull in all of the collective intelligence available in the team and get the s*** sorted. This is not the time for the emotional drama. If someone feels responsible for the situation, they should resign and go, like Norbert Haug did in 2012, despite his excellent services to Mercedes motorsport. That was honorable.

Cs98
Cs98
33
Joined: 01 Jul 2022, 11:37

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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F1Krof wrote:
11 Mar 2023, 22:53
What do you make of this?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fq7Wm7kWwAA ... ame=medium
A groveling embarrassment comes to mind... They need to stop treating these toxic fans as some sort of overlords, it only makes them bolder and more toxic.

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Chuckjr
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Joined: 24 Feb 2012, 08:34
Location: USA

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Couldn’t agree more with the sentiments from Wouter, mendis, and Cs98. The turd pods (I coined that term during testing 2022) are crap and the car aero philosophy is garbage. The end.
Watching F1 since 1986.

Henk_v
Henk_v
86
Joined: 24 Feb 2022, 13:41

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Chuckjr wrote:
12 Mar 2023, 20:31
Couldn’t agree more with the sentiments from Wouter, mendis, and Cs98. The turd pods (I coined that term during testing 2022) are crap and the car aero philosophy is garbage. The end.
Do you know the "our boys did not die in vain"-syndrome?

Google it.

Merc has a bad case of it

They rolled the dice and lost. If they abandon this philisophy (which I doubt, I expect them to just polish the "turd"), its a year too late. They are trying to teach a penguin to fly

Vaexa
Vaexa
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Joined: 24 Jun 2021, 18:58

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
13 Mar 2023, 03:52
Very off topic discussions on this page. Mods?
I think an open letter written and published by Mercedes-AMG F1 and the implications and circumstances thereof are rather topical for the Mercedes-AMG F1 team thread.

georgekyr
georgekyr
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Joined: 17 Apr 2022, 11:46

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It's the "Drive to Survive" era of F1...F1 is building on the show aspect of things just like any reality show. I just consider this latter as part of that...

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ValeVida46
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Joined: 23 Feb 2023, 13:36

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Reading some comments here, I see that from a variety of posters have formulated a hypothesis that:

Mercedes the team are going to lose their engine supply from Mercedes the engine provider, to Aston Martin.
Mercedes.

The team cannot issue statements because this is pandering to their "toxic fans".

Hinting that the team are in breach of the budget cap because a change in philosophy automatically means overspend.

It's now officially too late to change their philosophy.

It's never been seen when a team designed a less quicker car than before.

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Stu
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Joined: 02 Nov 2019, 10:05
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ValeVida46 wrote:
13 Mar 2023, 12:02
Reading some comments here, I see that from a variety of posters have formulated a hypothesis that:

Mercedes the team are going to lose their engine supply from Mercedes the engine provider, to Aston Martin.
This kind of idle speculation is fuelled within social media, it normally starts with whataboutery and evolves like Chinese whispers

Mercedes.
The team cannot issue statements because this is pandering to their "toxic fans".
Pre-social media this wouldn’t have occurred, social media leads ‘fans’ to consider themselves stakeholders in the team (which they aren’t), which itself fuels toxicity between ‘fans’ of rival teams (or of ‘fans’ of drivers within the same team)

Hinting that the team are in breach of the budget cap because a change in philosophy automatically means overspend.
Not sure how this one starts, but if any development work is done on items that are not fitted during a race weekend, time and material costs do not count towards the budget cap - they do, however, count towards the WT/CFD ‘budget’; again all fuelled by whataboutery.

It's now officially too late to change their philosophy.
Surely the only practical philosophy is to improve the performance of the car?

It's never been seen when a team designed a less quicker car than before.
This team haven’t, the W14 is quicker than the the W13; this early into a regulation set all teams will find improvement, but if all teams find a 10% improvement, teams with ‘slower’ cars find themselves further behind. Too soon to say if this is the case.
It is to be expected than both team ‘fans’ and rival team ‘fans’ will take advantage of any perceived failure of a team to improve more than others and bent on social media (because it is there, because they can). It doesn’t mean that any of the whataboutery is true (or false!).
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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georgekyr wrote:
13 Mar 2023, 11:36
It's the "Drive to Survive" era of F1...F1 is building on the show aspect of things just like any reality show. I just consider this latter as part of that...
Yes...drama baby...from "still we rise" when there was nothing to rise they went straight into Rocky III.
They again play their fanboys like a string (or making them stakeholders? ->Stu?)...but maybe I am just a toxic fan who wants the pre 2014 Merc team back without all these politics and staged drama for the stakeholders (success fans).

Imagine Ferrari writing letters every time they screw up... :mrgreen:
Thank god they are only passion and racing, not giving a .... about their fans -> no stakeholders?

And to be honest...I do not get the drama. The start last year was far from this and still they managed to beat Sainz in the drivers and without screwing up Spore would have had a good chance to beat Ferrari for second. The Bulls run away, but this was clear to everyone already last year...or not?
Now they are in striking distance to Aston and well in the pace to beat Ferrari over the year. Staging an underdog and a return from the dead once they win is not really needed.
Don`t russel the hamster!

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ValeVida46
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Joined: 23 Feb 2023, 13:36

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Stu wrote:
13 Mar 2023, 14:28
ValeVida46 wrote:
13 Mar 2023, 12:02
Reading some comments here, I see that from a variety of posters have formulated a hypothesis that:

Mercedes the team are going to lose their engine supply from Mercedes the engine provider, to Aston Martin.
This kind of idle speculation is fuelled within social media, it normally starts with whataboutery and evolves like Chinese whispers

Mercedes.
The team cannot issue statements because this is pandering to their "toxic fans".
Pre-social media this wouldn’t have occurred, social media leads ‘fans’ to consider themselves stakeholders in the team (which they aren’t), which itself fuels toxicity between ‘fans’ of rival teams (or of ‘fans’ of drivers within the same team)

Hinting that the team are in breach of the budget cap because a change in philosophy automatically means overspend.
Not sure how this one starts, but if any development work is done on items that are not fitted during a race weekend, time and material costs do not count towards the budget cap - they do, however, count towards the WT/CFD ‘budget’; again all fuelled by whataboutery.

It's now officially too late to change their philosophy.
Surely the only practical philosophy is to improve the performance of the car?

It's never been seen when a team designed a less quicker car than before.
This team haven’t, the W14 is quicker than the the W13; this early into a regulation set all teams will find improvement, but if all teams find a 10% improvement, teams with ‘slower’ cars find themselves further behind. Too soon to say if this is the case.
It is to be expected than both team ‘fans’ and rival team ‘fans’ will take advantage of any perceived failure of a team to improve more than others and bent on social media (because it is there, because they can). It doesn’t mean that any of the whataboutery is true (or false!).
To address some of the points. I think Teams issued statements well before the advent of social media.
Schumacher/Senna/Prost being prime examples as well as the FIA.

Also, I think every team up and down the pitlane is set up to improve as an ethos. Surely it's therefore reasonable to assume that a team can improve without breaking the budget cap?
If it's reasonable to question if there's a contravention, surely there would need to be evidence of surreptitious activity? Or failing that, this being a technical forum, a comparison of teams developments to frame the accusation?

Mansell89
Mansell89
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Joined: 22 Feb 2015, 19:21

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I think it is fair to say Mercedes have believed a little bit of their own hype here and got lost in the soap operas of F1. That bizarre letter to the fans - when they are still comfortable a top 4 team and likely to be podium contender later this season, was like a slap in the face to all other teams especially the smaller ones.

Merc are starting to sound like fallen football giants who think they have a divine right to win every season. The reality is the Jump that they got on everyone in 2014 has finally eroded and this time it is they who are playing catch up.

Why can’t they just quietly and efficiently burrow away at the issue and then do their talking on track like they did previously? I think Toto has really let the pressure get to him - sometimes it is best to say very little and just acknowledge the situation quietly and calmly. These ridiculous fighting statements like “everyone has a target on their back” and this relentless push to get Red Bull revenge seems to have clouded what is usually a precision and logical beast of a team.

There are many teams who would love to be finishing P6 and P7 on their worst racing weekend ever!

PS this is not a dig at Merc- they are an absolute machine and a giant in F1 with enormous talent- more so just a gripe with their entitled mentality at this present time IMHO.

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pursue_one's
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Joined: 28 Mar 2021, 04:50

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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- Mercedes is expected to bring a few new parts to the Saudi GP
- Big upgrade package will arrive at Imola

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... on-martin/

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organic
1055
Joined: 08 Jan 2022, 02:24
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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pursue_one's wrote:
13 Mar 2023, 17:03
- Mercedes is expected to bring a few new parts to the Saudi GP
- Big upgrade package will arrive at Imola

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... on-martin/
Somewhere else said floor will change for saudi so probably just that

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JordanMugen
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Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ValeVida46 wrote:
13 Mar 2023, 12:02
Mercedes the team are going to lose their engine supply from Mercedes the engine provider, to Aston Martin.
Mercedes.
In any case, given Mercedes only own 30% or 33% of the team, that would be the perfect opportunity for Honda to buy into a team without needing to pay for the full team value and have Honda Racing F1 back in Brackley - this time with sponsorship from fellow part-owner Ineos and hopefully no crazy ideas of painting the car like a globe!

Mercedes seeking to exit their works team, would really be the perfect opportunity for Honda in my opinion. Granted it sounds like many facilities have not been upgraded since 2014, so the capital investment required may not be so much lower than Williams Racing or AlphaTauri as one would necessarily expect!

AR3-GP wrote:
11 Mar 2023, 23:22
It's real surprisingly:
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/news/a-letter-to-the-fans
I think Mercedes GP will eventually get to the acceptance stage of being an upper-midfield team. On balance that is quite a good position to be in the field. It's where the team as BAR-Honda and Honda were at in the competitive order for the most part, until it all went a bit wrong in 2007. Indeed, it is also where Mercedes GP was from 2010 to 2013. ...and of course it's where Red Bull Racing was from 2014 to 2020 for that matter!

There's nothing unusual about that, if not a little "contaminated" this time by Mercedes GP seemingly having difficultly changing their ways from being a team used to throwing unlimited money at solving problems and having no qualm with developing multiple alternatives that never get used, and instead needing to pick one solution more like a budget-constrained team this time.

If Mercedes aren't keen to continue as a constructor in an upper-midfield capacity (I recall Mercedes were not 100% certain about continuing circa 2011-2012 in a similar position), that would be perfect opportunity for Honda to buy the team back really.