The article is about him complaing that floor stays worked against Alpine (their car is heavier and stiff enough already, while others have lighter cars in need of stiffening), so flutter must be a part of it imo.
The article is about him complaing that floor stays worked against Alpine (their car is heavier and stiff enough already, while others have lighter cars in need of stiffening), so flutter must be a part of it imo.
It reminds me of speedboat porpoising.godlameroso wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022, 17:51This post got a pair of downvotes. Laughs in engineergodlameroso wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 22:44The big diffuser and edge wing like on the Mercedes with no sidepods to share the load, means the floor has more load to take than something like a Ferrari, or Alpine. That means the floor is more prone to deformation and flexing. More deformation and flexing means more vortex shedding unless you make the floor stronger. If you make it stronger then it's also heavier.
Funnily enough the way boats fix porpoising is adding a flat stay at the rear of the boat.ispano6 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022, 19:49It reminds me of speedboat porpoising.godlameroso wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022, 17:51This post got a pair of downvotes. Laughs in engineergodlameroso wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 22:44The big diffuser and edge wing like on the Mercedes with no sidepods to share the load, means the floor has more load to take than something like a Ferrari, or Alpine. That means the floor is more prone to deformation and flexing. More deformation and flexing means more vortex shedding unless you make the floor stronger. If you make it stronger then it's also heavier.
"Porpoising is the result of the motor’s outdrive pushing the boat upwards, essentially boosting it out of the water – albeit for a short period of time. Once the boat comes back down, the outdrive will once again push it back out of the water. This cycle will continue to repeat until either the boat’s speed is reduced or the trim is fixed."
Mercedes had to resort to using the stays to keep the floor from flexing down (could this cause lift due to the angle?). They also had to trim rear-wing down force. Teams that don't need the stays have much stronger(but possibly heavier) floors. As always all teams aim to strike a balance between straight-line speed and down force. I found the RedBull Rb18 underbody and floor particularly interesting as it reminded me of the keel of a large boat as well as the underbody of a speedboat/yacht.
ispano6 wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022, 19:49It reminds me of speedboat porpoising.godlameroso wrote: ↑06 Apr 2022, 17:51This post got a pair of downvotes. Laughs in engineergodlameroso wrote: ↑29 Mar 2022, 22:44The big diffuser and edge wing like on the Mercedes with no sidepods to share the load, means the floor has more load to take than something like a Ferrari, or Alpine. That means the floor is more prone to deformation and flexing. More deformation and flexing means more vortex shedding unless you make the floor stronger. If you make it stronger then it's also heavier.
"Porpoising is the result of the motor’s outdrive pushing the boat upwards, essentially boosting it out of the water – albeit for a short period of time. Once the boat comes back down, the outdrive will once again push it back out of the water. This cycle will continue to repeat until either the boat’s speed is reduced or the trim is fixed."
Mercedes had to resort to using the stays to keep the floor from flexing down (could this cause lift due to the angle?). They also had to trim rear-wing down force. Teams that don't need the stays have much stronger(but possibly heavier) floors. As always all teams aim to strike a balance between straight-line speed and down force. I found the RedBull Rb18 underbody and floor particularly interesting as it reminded me of the keel of a large boat as well as the underbody of a speedboat/yacht.
Sound pressure wave induced buffeting? You lessen the pressure waves when you reduce the difference in flow velocity from the throat to the outlet/diffuser. If the diffuser is at nearly atmospheric pressure and has low velocity flow, the high velocity jet impinging on it creates pressure waves, which can cause flow separation/reversal. So by reducing flow velocity, you lower downforce, but you also lower the transition separation.saviour stivala wrote: ↑07 Apr 2022, 06:02In the past days of ground-effect cars there were only two ways to get over any porpoising problems that showed-up. One was by restricting the venture inlet, and the other by expanding its outlet. The problem was that by doing any of the above some down-force would have to be left behind. But the question is. Why do they do any one of the above to minimize their porpoising problems?. It might be either that it is not easy with the car as designed, or that budget/development restrictions nd or whole car as designed somehow restricts any of those possibilities.
The drag reduction from stalling the difffuser would be much weaker than opening the rear wing. Why not just mandate a smaller DRS slot opening distance?vorticism wrote: ↑20 Mar 2023, 18:44Porpoising is still visible in 2023 (see Ferrari in Jeddah). As before it is seen mainly on the straights where downforce is highest. The increase in downforce with speed correlates with porpoising; and generally peak downforce is not needed on the straights except for braking. If floor downforce could be shed then porpoising might be mitigated.
Proposal for diffuser DRS: move the DRS mechanism from the rear wing to the diffuser. This already exists in the Aston Martin Valkyrie (as confirmed in press articles this year).
vorticism wrote: ↑16 Aug 2022, 16:31Looks to have movable doors in the tunnel roofs. May be for additional cooling at standstill or a form of DRS.
https://i.imgur.com/j1bA4Is.jpg
Floor produces the most downforce although more efficiently. So it might be close. Anyone know the ballpark numbers?