2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[jambuka]

Time has come for Ferrari to conclude that it needs a world champion to lead the team on track and off track. Getting academy driver and managers with experience at Sauber is just wrong.

100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.

Example team: RB with Perez, MB with Ham AM with Alonso.

Ferrari, Alpine are in same boat.

Oh come on, we all say what happened when Vettel was there with leclerc. And who do you think they should get, Hulkenberg ?

[AR3-GP]

Time has come for Ferrari to conclude that it needs a world champion to lead the team on track and off track. Getting academy driver and managers with experience at Sauber is just wrong.

100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.

Example team: RB with Perez, MB with Ham AM with Alonso.

Ferrari, Alpine are in same boat.

Oh come on, we all say what happened when Vettel was there with leclerc. And who do you think they should get, Hulkenberg ?

It would be interesting to see Hulkenberg at Ferrari. However, I'm not sure that is a solution to anything.

[Big Tea]

100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.

Example team: RB with Perez, MB with Ham AM with Alonso.

Ferrari, Alpine are in same boat.

Oh come on, we all say what happened when Vettel was there with leclerc. And who do you think they should get, Hulkenberg ?

It would be interesting to see Hulkenberg at Ferrari. However, I'm not sure that is a solution to anything.

I think someone with the opposite attitude to Hulk. Hulk is a very good driver but not exactly the long game player.
Much of Ferrari's failings seem to be due to the 'hurry up and wait' school which so often seems to catch them short.
I think a Botas type (not really Botas himself) would be the best fit. Possibly a Lando, but I can not see it happening.

[mzso]

I wonder why FIA does not check how they manage to have these speeds ... In 2019 they focused on Ferrari's engine which didn't have such an advantage.

They check and examine parts as always.
And it's not about advantage, the Ferrari was doing illegal things. The Red Bull is just good, by the looks of it.

Gasly didn't receive any penalty for example, despite crushing a rival (his teammate) against a wall

And their failure to penalize Gasly and Sargeant, doesn't make Sainz's penalty less valid.

You can't say 5 seconds is standard, under SC applying 5 seconds equals to DSQ...

You really think that is a fair punishment for a mistake with no consequences for any driver?

Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment

No, it equals to tough luck.
And there were consequences. Alonso was last after that, might have even crashed out. He was only saved by Gasly's stupidity and the red flag.

[mzso]

Seriously?

What about the fact that first race incidents are usually considered racing incidents, while this time they punished Sainz extremelly hard demoting him from 4th to 12th for a small and pretty common mistake on first lap?

One position lost, or two-three positions on next grid would have been a lot more sensible, even if still unfair (I can mention dozens of accidents in first lap wich didn´t draw any penalty), but demoting 8 position and removing 12 points is probably the biggest penalty we´ve seen in F1 in decades... for a small and common mistake

Infuriating double standards

You're talking nonsense. 5s is the minimum punishment... Not "extremely hard" in any way.
Some extra leniency doesn't mean you can just turn around other cars.

[AR3-GP]

I'm surprised that people are making a big deal about the Sainz penalty. That is, by far, one of Ferrari's least important problems and will be rather inconsequential at the end of a 23 race season.

The most important thing right now is setting course with the car development to match or exceed Red Bull. Ferrari shouldn't give a single breath to the Sainz situation. It's not priority.

[mzso]

Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment

Well, not 12 points, but the penalty for Schumacher at Monaco 2010 was a similar joke. He got penalized because the stewards didn't execute the rules correctly and switched the track to green at the very end and Schumacher overtook Alonso. So he got a penalty because the race control made a mistake.

He got a penalty because he didn't knew the rules...

[mzso]

Time has come for Ferrari to conclude that it needs a world champion to lead the team on track and off track. Getting academy driver and managers with experience at Sauber is just wrong.

100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.

Example team: RB with Perez, MB with Ham AM with Alonso.

Ferrari, Alpine are in same boat.

A silly conclusion. Leclerc brings as good a performance as the circumstances allow. Both of them have number of years in F1 and Leclerc is the same age as Verstappen. Only the Mercedes pairing is stronger than Ferrari's.
Plus you guys are forgetting that they did have a champion and Leclerc outclassed him in short order.

What they need is a good car design, good race engineers, good strategists, neither of which they have.

[mzso]

Time has come for Ferrari to conclude that it needs a world champion to lead the team on track and off track. Getting academy driver and managers with experience at Sauber is just wrong.

100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.

Example team: RB with Perez, MB with Ham AM with Alonso.

Ferrari, Alpine are in same boat.

A silly conclusion. Leclerc brings as good a performance as the circumstances allow. Both of them have number of years in F1 and Leclerc is the same age as Verstappen. Only the Mercedes pairing is stronger than Ferrari's.
Plus you guys are forgetting that they did have a champion and Leclerc outclassed him in short order. They had two champions before that, didn't do them any good, did it?

What they need is a good car design, good race engineers, good strategists, neither of which they have.

[TimW]

Time has come for Ferrari to conclude that it needs a world champion to lead the team on track and off track. Getting academy driver and managers with experience at Sauber is just wrong.

100%. I felt this several times. They need experienced driver. have two kids is not going to help the team. They are paying for their decision. Kick out Sainz and bring experienced one next year.

Example team: RB with Perez, MB with Ham AM with Alonso.

Ferrari, Alpine are in same boat.

More experienced than Sainz? That leaves Bottas, Hulkenberg, Alonso and Hamilton...

[Dr. Acula]

Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment

Well, not 12 points, but the penalty for Schumacher at Monaco 2010 was a similar joke. He got penalized because the stewards didn't execute the rules correctly and switched the track to green at the very end and Schumacher overtook Alonso. So he got a penalty because the race control made a mistake.

He got a penalty because he didn't knew the rules...

But so didn't race control. They showed green flags and green indicator boards, there are video recordings which shows this was really the case. Thing is, yes, Schumacher overtook Alonso what was supposed to be "full course yellow". But the marshals showed green flags, which was wrong.

[jambuka]

Last year Charles got his limited edition watch stolen in April and around the same time his bad luck started. The watch has been recovered after 1 year and the thieves have been caught. Charles 2023 WDC confirmed.

[Andres125sx]

I'm surprised that people are making a big deal about the Sainz penalty. That is, by far, one of Ferrari's least important problems and will be rather inconsequential at the end of a 23 race season.

The most important thing right now is setting course with the car development to match or exceed Red Bull. Ferrari shouldn't give a single breath to the Sainz situation. It's not priority.

First time in my life I read someone saying a F1 team should not bother if FIA deprives them from scoring 12 points, specially on a tight championship like this

[Andres125sx]

Seriously?

What about the fact that first race incidents are usually considered racing incidents, while this time they punished Sainz extremelly hard demoting him from 4th to 12th for a small and pretty common mistake on first lap?

One position lost, or two-three positions on next grid would have been a lot more sensible, even if still unfair (I can mention dozens of accidents in first lap wich didn´t draw any penalty), but demoting 8 position and removing 12 points is probably the biggest penalty we´ve seen in F1 in decades... for a small and common mistake

Infuriating double standards

You're talking nonsense. 5s is the minimum punishment... Not "extremely hard" in any way.
Some extra leniency doesn't mean you can just turn around other cars.

None said he should not receive any penalty. But from not receiving any penalty, and receiving a penalty wich equals disqualifying, there are several steps in between wich are not as hard nor lenient

And no, 5s is not the minimum punishment, there are grid penalties, they can drop him one position, there are several options to not punish that hard a driver who only went a bit long on first lap, wich is usually considered a racing incident.

[Andres125sx]

I wonder why FIA does not check how they manage to have these speeds ... In 2019 they focused on Ferrari's engine which didn't have such an advantage.

They check and examine parts as always.
And it's not about advantage, the Ferrari was doing illegal things. The Red Bull is just good, by the looks of it.

Gasly didn't receive any penalty for example, despite crushing a rival (his teammate) against a wall

And their failure to penalize Gasly and Sargeant, doesn't make Sainz's penalty less valid.

You can't say 5 seconds is standard, under SC applying 5 seconds equals to DSQ...

You really think that is a fair punishment for a mistake with no consequences for any driver?

Can anyone point me to any penalty which deprived any driver from scoring 12 points? I've seen much more severe mistakes, and not even those received such a severe punishment

No, it equals to tough luck.
And there were consequences. Alonso was last after that, might have even crashed out. He was only saved by Gasly's stupidity and the red flag.

What if...

Reality is no driver suffered any harm or disadvantage or dropped a single position, but Sainz was, in practice, disqualified after a tough and praiseworthy recover from p12 to p4 after some tough luck with the pitstop and SC

But some Ferrari fans say it doesn´t matter if a Ferrari driver is deprived from scoring 12 points