2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Andres125sx]

A penalty is a penalty, no matter what the proportionality is. We have also seen 10sec penalties just disappearing. Or just last race a 5sec without any meaning in the end.
As long as the penalty system is like this, the result does not matter by the rule. Here it simply did not matter by the rule where Sainz ends up. This is not unfair, this is the stupid rule...if someone does not like it...vote for changing the rule, not say the one applying it is wrong.

What do you think I´m doing? I can´t vote, so I can only express my disconformity. Do you mind?

Can´t disagree more about proportionality, if a penalty is not proportional, penalties are utter nosense. What do you think is the point of penalties? It´s some form of mandatory education, we can´t force you to follow the rules, but if you don´t follow, you´ll be punished, so next time you´ll think twice before breaking the rule.

If a mistake is not punished, penalty is useless. If it´s punished harder than necessary, it´s not fair, as it´s applying different standards to different drivers. If any driver who rotates an opponent is DSQ ok, but DSQ some drivers, while others don´t receive any penalty, lenient or hard, is against the spirit of sports and competition

It´s surprising reading proportionality doesn´t matter on penalties

[CRazyLemon]

What if...

Reality is no driver suffered any harm or disadvantage or dropped a single position, but Sainz was, in practice, disqualified after a tough and praiseworthy recover from p12 to p4 after some tough luck with the pitstop and SC

But some Ferrari fans say it doesn´t matter if a Ferrari driver is deprived from scoring 12 points

Realistically if it isn't going to influence winning the WDC or WCC who cares, infact unless Ferrari are going to win one of these two titles I'd like them to finish last and get the additional development time. It isn't like they'll struggle to fill the prize money gap.

[Xyz22]

From the best car to this

[mzso]

None said he should not receive any penalty. But from not receiving any penalty, and receiving a penalty wich equals disqualifying, there are several steps in between wich are not as hard nor lenient

And no, 5s is not the minimum punishment, there are grid penalties, they can drop him one position, there are several options to not punish that hard a driver who only went a bit long on first lap, wich is usually considered a racing incident.

No there aren't. Grid penalties apply only if the decision is made after the race. There was no reason to delay, since the race was stopped. There's no such penalty as "drop one position", that's in MotoGP I think.
And again, it does not equal disqualifying.

What if...

Reality is no driver suffered any harm or disadvantage or dropped a single position, but Sainz was, in practice, disqualified after a tough and praiseworthy recover from p12 to p4 after some tough luck with the pitstop and SC

But some Ferrari fans say it doesn´t matter if a Ferrari driver is deprived from scoring 12 points

You can stop reiterating the same nonsense.
And in anyway. Should a driver be allowed to do illegal/dangerous moves as long as the victim escapes loss of position by luck or skill? I should hope not.

What Ferrari fans say is irrelevant to an argument. But in any case it's starting to get proved true, as far as the championship goes. Unless there's some miraculous revolution for Ferrari by Baku they're not likely to get a driver finish within the top four.

If a mistake is not punished, penalty is useless. If it´s punished harder than necessary, it´s not fair, as it´s applying different standards to different drivers. If any driver who rotates an opponent is DSQ ok, but DSQ some drivers, while others don´t receive any penalty, lenient or hard, is against the spirit of sports and competition

It´s surprising reading proportionality doesn´t matter on penalties

Again with this nonsense. He literally got the smallest available punishment! (Twenty years ago it would have been a 10s stop&go penalty.)
What's very wrong is that Gasly and Sargeant didn't get a grid penalty...

[mzso]

Last year Charles got his limited edition watch stolen in April and around the same time his bad luck started. The watch has been recovered after 1 year and the thieves have been caught. Charles 2023 WDC confirmed.

So when is Norris getting his luck/watch back? (He was actually mugged, which is more unpleasant.)

[S D]

Odd how some will complain about Ferrari not having the political clout to argue against directives that hamper them while at the same time arguing that they should forget a harsh penalty and move on.

[AR3-GP]

Odd how some will complain about Ferrari not having the political clout to argue against directives that hamper them while at the same time arguing that they should forget a harsh penalty and move on.

You should only focus on the most important problems at the time. Last year Ferrari should have fought TD039 with all their might. This year they should be focusing on the performance of the car with all their might.

[S D]

Odd how some will complain about Ferrari not having the political clout to argue against directives that hamper them while at the same time arguing that they should forget a harsh penalty and move on.

You should only focus on the most important problems at the time. Last year Ferrari should have fought TD039 with all their might. This year they should be focusing on the performance of the car with all their might.

Does anyone believe that they are not?

[Andres125sx]

What if...

Reality is no driver suffered any harm or disadvantage or dropped a single position, but Sainz was, in practice, disqualified after a tough and praiseworthy recover from p12 to p4 after some tough luck with the pitstop and SC

But some Ferrari fans say it doesn´t matter if a Ferrari driver is deprived from scoring 12 points

You can stop reiterating the same nonsense.
And in anyway. Should a driver be allowed to do illegal/dangerous moves as long as the victim escapes loss of position by luck or skill? I should hope not.

What Ferrari fans say is irrelevant to an argument. But in any case it's starting to get proved true, as far as the championship goes. Unless there's some miraculous revolution for Ferrari by Baku they're not likely to get a driver finish within the top four.

Stop the nosense yourself first please

Who said a driver should be allowed to do illegal or dangerous moves as long as the victim escapes? None, I´m arguing about the penalty impossed, none said he should have received no penalty, so please, do not use a strawman argument while you ask to stop the nosense

So if Ferrari don´t finish within the top four they should stop defending their rights, and renounce to competition? And you ask to stop the nosense on the very same post?

You know WCC position provides money and 12 points less might mean Ferrari collects less money for next season? If Ferrari can´t defend their own points, no surprise they´re second class team for more than a decade...

[Farnborough]

I can see all the different arguments for and against, many having merit as I believe it was an unusual situation that developed.

Sainz would not want to hit Alonso, for sure. Lando gave good view of how difficult the tyres were at restart.

Sainz perhaps just slightly too optimistic, not intentionally making contact.

Alonso didn't ultimately suffer any reduction, because of the peculiar circumstances. I definitely did not want to see him out of the race, or position.

If they want Sainz to proceed with more caution in future, then a licence points only would do that effectively. This would acknowledge his error, then impose a more cutious overview on his part while holding those license points.

This would recognise the driver part while not punishing the team effort running behind both cars within Ferrari.

Generally it appears to be recognised this 5 sec penalty in THIS eventuality is pretty draconian and probably over stepped the reality of the error he made.

[Venturiation]

Very bad

[AR3-GP]

Very bad

I haven't seen your "Very bad" post about the other failure in Australia

[Venturiation]

Very bad

I haven't seen your "Very bad" post about the other failure in Australia

There was no problem he just got spun on lap 1

Pace was good for sainz

[AR3-GP]

Very bad

I haven't seen your "Very bad" post about the other failure in Australia

There was no problem he just got spun on lap 1

I'm talking about the other power unit supplier. You post a lot about Ferrari "failure" in the last few weeks. I didn't see a post for the other PU manufacturer failure in Australia. Just making sure we are being reasonable as opposed to a dedication to Ferrari

[Venturiation]

I haven't seen your "Very bad" post about the other failure in Australia

There was no problem he just got spun on lap 1

I'm talking about the other power unit supplier. You post a lot about Ferrari "failure" in the last few weeks. I didn't see a post for the other PU manufacturer failure in Australia. Just making sure we are being reasonable as opposed to a dedication to Ferrari

What does that have to do with Ferrari thread ?