Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Mandrake
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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zeph wrote:
02 Apr 2023, 08:52
Sorry for reviving this zombie thread but I feel time has confirmed my initial assertion.

The brazen meddling in Abu Dhabi 2021 and today's unnecessary double red flags have really hit the point home for me; F1 wants entertainment, and won't shy away from creating some if nothing is happening.

Whether that's good or bad depends on your view. But as a longtime fan I just feel cheated.

Sorry for the rant.
I guess you never can make everyone happy. The first red flag was justified due to all of the gravel on the road, it would have taken quite some time to sweep it all up, boring to watch multiple laps behind the SC.

Same with hte Magnussen incident, lots of debris on the track so the race would have ended under SC....again boring to watch and not what even people here usually want. And the FIA cannot be blamed for the drivers going completely berzerk at the last race restart. So I was happy with the red flags so I did not have to watch a large part of the race behind SC.

For me it also helped that I watched the race on replay, so I could skip over the red flag breaks.

V12-POWER
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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It has become a reality show, whether this is because society itself is as soft as ever, or because the owners think this is the best for the sport, I dont know

the fact is F1 lacks seriousness, character and lacks the glamour it used to have. It has been converted in a very dull and casual "sport" when you look under the fake drama and all that makeup. the drivers are portrayed as a bunch of gamers basically, the cars are heavy and oversized (length wise) the engines have to last a lifetime which leads to "managing", the tires cannot be pushed because they burn. The "road relevancy" falacy. all the aspects which go against the essence of motorsports and SPRINT type of races in general.

it is not about going flatout anymore and as a racing driver myself it hurts because you cannot call it the pinnacle of motorsports if your job is not about being the fastest, i can only imagine what F1 drivers feel when they are told to "manage" must hurt deeply inside but well at least you get to do what you like. I dont see usain bolt managing for a 100m dash.

no refueling, so tactics are further dumbed down, tires engineered to last a preset amount of distance, all for the fake drama, because you're forced to use 2 compounds during a race.

At last, let's analyze very quickly 2 very contrasting formulas.

A 2023 F1 car is almost as long as a dual cab F150 and weights 900KG, has 1000hp, but only for a lap.

A 2005 F1 car is 1-1.2 meters shorter, is 300KG lighter and has 1000hp all day long. It also has better sound to it too but thats a bonus. But you can push it because the tires can take it, and you can run the engine hard because it only lasts 2 weekends. And it is closer to the essence of a race car than current regs because of these factors.

Before the hybrid era, coasting, lifting, blatant early braking was something very rare. Current formula might be an awesome display of technology but they're not an awesome display of a race car.

Another fact is the bloated calendar, which removes some of the "uniqueness" of a Grand Prix, it is now no more than watching your average weekend football match

All of this isnt because of netflix. Because drama has always been a part of F1 and the DTS crew would kill for another Singapore 2008, spygate, multi 21, "let michael pass for the championship" and many more examples.

It is just the people at the top and the political pressure that's bringing this stuff into the sport

Mosin123
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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V12-POWER wrote:
05 Apr 2023, 03:51
It has become a reality show, whether this is because society itself is as soft as ever, or because the owners think this is the best for the sport, I dont know

the fact is F1 lacks seriousness, character and lacks the glamour it used to have. It has been converted in a very dull and casual "sport" when you look under the fake drama and all that makeup. the drivers are portrayed as a bunch of gamers basically, the cars are heavy and oversized (length wise) the engines have to last a lifetime which leads to "managing", the tires cannot be pushed because they burn. The "road relevancy" falacy. all the aspects which go against the essence of motorsports and SPRINT type of races in general.

it is not about going flatout anymore and as a racing driver myself it hurts because you cannot call it the pinnacle of motorsports if your job is not about being the fastest, i can only imagine what F1 drivers feel when they are told to "manage" must hurt deeply inside but well at least you get to do what you like. I dont see usain bolt managing for a 100m dash.

no refueling, so tactics are further dumbed down, tires engineered to last a preset amount of distance, all for the fake drama, because you're forced to use 2 compounds during a race.

At last, let's analyze very quickly 2 very contrasting formulas.

A 2023 F1 car is almost as long as a dual cab F150 and weights 900KG, has 1000hp, but only for a lap.

A 2005 F1 car is 1-1.2 meters shorter, is 300KG lighter and has 1000hp all day long. It also has better sound to it too but thats a bonus. But you can push it because the tires can take it, and you can run the engine hard because it only lasts 2 weekends. And it is closer to the essence of a race car than current regs because of these factors.

Before the hybrid era, coasting, lifting, blatant early braking was something very rare. Current formula might be an awesome display of technology but they're not an awesome display of a race car.

Another fact is the bloated calendar, which removes some of the "uniqueness" of a Grand Prix, it is now no more than watching your average weekend football match

All of this isnt because of netflix. Because drama has always been a part of F1 and the DTS crew would kill for another Singapore 2008, spygate, multi 21, "let michael pass for the championship" and many more examples.

It is just the people at the top and the political pressure that's bringing this stuff into the sport
Dont think ive ever seen an f1 car giving it 100 % every lap, in fact, Ive always seen them going as slow as possbile to win.

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Stu
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Mosin123 wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:15

Dont think ive ever seen an f1 car giving it 100 % every lap, in fact, Ive always seen them going as slow as possbile to win.
Schumacher, Hungarian GP 1998…
“Michael, we need you to do 19 qualifying laps to make this strategy work. Can you do that?”
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

NoDivergence
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Stu wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:52
Mosin123 wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:15

Dont think ive ever seen an f1 car giving it 100 % every lap, in fact, Ive always seen them going as slow as possbile to win.
Schumacher, Hungarian GP 1998…
“Michael, we need you to do 19 qualifying laps to make this strategy work. Can you do that?”
Didn't realize the Hungarian GP is 19 laps long. Plenty of stints in history with flat out use of tires. For whole race? I haven't seen it

Mosin123
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Stu wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:52
Mosin123 wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:15

Dont think ive ever seen an f1 car giving it 100 % every lap, in fact, Ive always seen them going as slow as possbile to win.
Schumacher, Hungarian GP 1998…
“Michael, we need you to do 19 qualifying laps to make this strategy work. Can you do that?”
so not the whole 77 laps then? i always though the secret was to win going as slowly as possible?

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Stu
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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That is what Stirling Moss claimed, apparently.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Mosin123
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Stu wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 21:14
That is what Stirling Moss claimed, apparently.
And Fangio and later Niki Lauda too

V12-POWER
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Mosin123 wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:15
V12-POWER wrote:
05 Apr 2023, 03:51
....
Dont think ive ever seen an f1 car giving it 100 % every lap, in fact, Ive always seen them going as slow as possbile to win.
how can you gauge this without inside info from the teams? even if this is true, it doesnt change the fact that the hybrid era and pirelli tires introduced an era of sunday cruise type of driving which is way more than any other set of regulations.

Edax
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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NoDivergence wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:54
Stu wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:52
Mosin123 wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:15

Dont think ive ever seen an f1 car giving it 100 % every lap, in fact, Ive always seen them going as slow as possbile to win.
Schumacher, Hungarian GP 1998…
“Michael, we need you to do 19 qualifying laps to make this strategy work. Can you do that?”
Didn't realize the Hungarian GP is 19 laps long. Plenty of stints in history with flat out use of tires. For whole race? I haven't seen it
Have a look at Senna in the 1988 Monaco GP.

Mosin123
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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V12-POWER wrote:
09 Apr 2023, 06:00
Mosin123 wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:15
V12-POWER wrote:
05 Apr 2023, 03:51
....
Dont think ive ever seen an f1 car giving it 100 % every lap, in fact, Ive always seen them going as slow as possbile to win.
how can you gauge this without inside info from the teams? even if this is true, it doesnt change the fact that the hybrid era and pirelli tires introduced an era of sunday cruise type of driving which is way more than any other set of regulations.
I didnt think inside info was needed to see the drivers dont push lap after lap after lap after lap, from the start to the finish. Managing the race has ALWAYS been a thing in f1.

Mosin123
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Edax wrote:
09 Apr 2023, 08:52
NoDivergence wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:54
Stu wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:52


Schumacher, Hungarian GP 1998…
“Michael, we need you to do 19 qualifying laps to make this strategy work. Can you do that?”
Didn't realize the Hungarian GP is 19 laps long. Plenty of stints in history with flat out use of tires. For whole race? I haven't seen it
Have a look at Senna in the 1988 Monaco GP.
He didnt push every lap, he was fast every lap, but he was not setting personal best every lap and FAILED to finish the race, so not the whole gp no? its also worth noting it was his debut race, and he didnt try it again. hard lesson learnt i guess.

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hollus
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Prost was called what he was called for a reason: (from wiki)

He was nicknamed "The Professor" for his intellectual approach to competition. Though it was not a name he particularly cared for, he would admit later that it was an appropriate summation of his approach to his racing. Skilled at setting up his car for race conditions, Prost would often conserve his brakes and tyres early in a race, leaving them fresher for a challenge at the end.[6]
Rivals, not enemies.

Edax
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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Mosin123 wrote:
09 Apr 2023, 11:51
Edax wrote:
09 Apr 2023, 08:52
NoDivergence wrote:
08 Apr 2023, 13:54


Didn't realize the Hungarian GP is 19 laps long. Plenty of stints in history with flat out use of tires. For whole race? I haven't seen it
Have a look at Senna in the 1988 Monaco GP.
He didnt push every lap, he was fast every lap, but he was not setting personal best every lap and FAILED to finish the race, so not the whole gp no? its also worth noting it was his debut race, and he didnt try it again. hard lesson learnt i guess.
Well he cleared the whole field by over 50s, if that is not pushing then what is?

Actually he did try it again a couple of times. Some say his goal was to lap the whole field like prost did in 1986. He actually came pretty close to that in the European GP a few years later.

But there was not much tire saving going on in these days, and little risk of safety cars. Perhaps it was better to drive as fast as you could in order to get to the finish before the car fell apart.

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peewon
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Re: Leclerc's win in Monza signals the arrival of F1 reality TV

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This is also an era which is extra punitive for not managing your hardware efficiently. Sustainability and edge of performance are contradictory concepts and F1 is trying to walk that in between line.