2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[mendis]

Considering Tsunoda hasn't anything significant in 2+ years that he is with the team, it's natural to replace him with Lawson, unless DeVries proves to be a bigger failure. Either ways, I think they should revamp the Alpha Tauri wholistically. Drivers, team principal and large part fo the tech leadership need to be flushed to propel the team forward. They are stuck while other teams are moving forward. Heck, the way Williams has improved in the last 3 years puts AT to shame, despite having the best PU on the grid.

[atanatizante]

What do you think guys about Mark Hughes` article regarding why the RB19 car has such an agressive anti-dive front and anti-squat rear suspension:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... perez-mph/

I read through that and feel he's looking in a very very conventional optic as to how it's bring driven, particularly by MV.

I do agree that bringing up anti dive during braking makes it harder for the driver to determine with a degree of accurate finese just how close he is to locking.
In other words, increases performance, but trades that with feel dimished, especially if tyre is not brought to temp.
MV was more accomplished in handling that balance at various critical phase than SP.

The highest bonus for not letting the front dive is consistency in geometry of aero leading into the floor area I feel. Doesnt mean the floor is not shifting, but more that's principally achieved by rear jacking. That's an area they have huge experience of too in the significant rake attitude they've previously worked with.

Technically speaking, his claim that anti-dive geometry has a great influence on front tire warming is not correct.

The longitudinal load transfer of these F1 cars is dominated by the deceleration value, not the very minor changes in CG height associated with dive/anti-dive especially since the cars are stiffly sprung and rise at the rear is somewhat counteracted by dive at the front.

In this equation how much influence has the 18 inch tyres & their compounds under braking and acceleration to both dive and squat situations?

Then, what's your thoughts about lowering the car under a certain load when the car exceeded 250kph in order to increase top speed further? It's nothing new about that but how they do that? Through double spring rate rear suspension as Driver61 explained us on an YT video?

[AR3-GP]

I read through that and feel he's looking in a very very conventional optic as to how it's bring driven, particularly by MV.

I do agree that bringing up anti dive during braking makes it harder for the driver to determine with a degree of accurate finese just how close he is to locking.
In other words, increases performance, but trades that with feel dimished, especially if tyre is not brought to temp.
MV was more accomplished in handling that balance at various critical phase than SP.

The highest bonus for not letting the front dive is consistency in geometry of aero leading into the floor area I feel. Doesnt mean the floor is not shifting, but more that's principally achieved by rear jacking. That's an area they have huge experience of too in the significant rake attitude they've previously worked with.

Technically speaking, his claim that anti-dive geometry has a great influence on front tire warming is not correct.

The longitudinal load transfer of these F1 cars is dominated by the deceleration value, not the very minor changes in CG height associated with dive/anti-dive especially since the cars are stiffly sprung and rise at the rear is somewhat counteracted by dive at the front.

In this equation how much influence has the 18 inch tyres & their compounds under braking and acceleration to both dive and squat situations?

Then, what's your thoughts about lowering the car under a certain load when the car exceeded 250kph in order to increase top speed further? It's nothing new about that but how they do that? Through double spring rate rear suspension as Driver61 explained us on an YT video?

Regarding the first point, the effective corner stiffness is defined by both the tire stiffness and the mechanical spring stiffness. They work in series. The team has a target corner stiffness. In simple terms, give them a softer tire (13"), and they'll use a stiffer spring. Give them a harder tire (18") and they'll use a softer spring. So basically the tire change has little effect on anti-dive.


Regarding you're second question, I have no idea. If I did, I'd consider selling it to another team

[AR3-GP]

What do you think guys about Mark Hughes` article regarding why the RB19 car has such an agressive anti-dive front and anti-squat rear suspension:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... perez-mph/

I read through that and feel he's looking in a very very conventional optic as to how it's bring driven, particularly by MV.

I do agree that bringing up anti dive during braking makes it harder for the driver to determine with a degree of accurate finese just how close he is to locking.

It should also be noted that Max does TONS of sim racing, in a cockpit that doesn't move, and with a brake pedal that probably does not offer much feel.

So he was never going to be hindered by any lack of feel caused by anti-dive geometry.

[Farnborough]

What do you think guys about Mark Hughes` article regarding why the RB19 car has such an agressive anti-dive front and anti-squat rear suspension:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... perez-mph/

I read through that and feel he's looking in a very very conventional optic as to how it's bring driven, particularly by MV.

I do agree that bringing up anti dive during braking makes it harder for the driver to determine with a degree of accurate finese just how close he is to locking.

It should also be noted that Max does TONS of sim racing, in a cockpit that doesn't move, and with a brake pedal that probably does not offer much feel.

So he was never going to be hindered by any lack of feel caused by anti-dive geometry.

Agree that his skill set would seem to orientate him well for this scenario.

Noted from quotation by SP in coming to RB, that driving this chassis in comparison to those he'd come from was like driving a completely different formula of competition.

Anecdotal about sim driving. My skills on consumer sim hardware is certainly not good, i get nothing of the control feel of vehicles I've raced. But a local short competition for gp race tickets brought here a RB sim to set lap times on Bahrain circuit, run by a promo team on behalf of RB. I was talking to those running it and not interested in trying (son was driving) and he persuaded me to as it was nothing like a "home" type setup.
He was right. It had, relative to those with zero feel, an exquisitely good steering, and pedal feedback and far far closer to reality in a competition car than I could imagine.
This was a rig obviously transited around for this purpose with nothing like the sophistication they must use for the in factory driver training. Honestly a real eye opener far above expectation and certainly gave very different view than I'd previously held.

[Farnborough]

Adding to the above, the part that really really surprised was coming into corner one at that curuit as example, you could push the brake pedal (with attendant resistance) to a really high degree initially under flat out downforce load, but that stability blended away as speed came off, with the rear starting to release (obviously screen confirmation of directional movements) to eventually let you feel the car on the steering as you came to turn it in to apex in a simulation of just how much rear grip was there as you rotated the chassis in that final phase.

Came away thinking I wanted own one of these

[Wouter]

Also is RBR.

[Sieper]

That’s a big honour, I feel it is well deserved, a quite unique performance.

[Bill]

Considering Tsunoda hasn't anything significant in 2+ years that he is with the team, it's natural to replace him with Lawson, unless DeVries proves to be a bigger failure. Either ways, I think they should revamp the Alpha Tauri wholistically. Drivers, team principal and large part fo the tech leadership need to be flushed to propel the team forward. They are stuck while other teams are moving forward. Heck, the way Williams has improved in the last 3 years puts AT to shame, despite having the best PU on the grid.

what does not doing anything significant mean ,he was the better driver than Gasly .he beat him in the second half in all races expert singapore and mexico.i difficult to show your skills while driving a poor car.these Lawson guy has just done one race in super gt and already u think the entire redbull team should stake their future with him.Tsunoda is not going anywhere he is a Honda protegy ,honda spent multimillion developing the pu and he is part of the package

[mendis]

Considering Tsunoda hasn't anything significant in 2+ years that he is with the team, it's natural to replace him with Lawson, unless DeVries proves to be a bigger failure. Either ways, I think they should revamp the Alpha Tauri wholistically. Drivers, team principal and large part fo the tech leadership need to be flushed to propel the team forward. They are stuck while other teams are moving forward. Heck, the way Williams has improved in the last 3 years puts AT to shame, despite having the best PU on the grid.

what does not doing anything significant mean ,he was the better driver than Gasly .he beat him in the second half in all races expert singapore and mexico.i difficult to show your skills while driving a poor car.these Lawson guy has just done one race in super gt and already u think the entire redbull team should stake their future with him.Tsunoda is not going anywhere he is a Honda protegy ,honda spent multimillion developing the pu and he is part of the package

I can understand your Honda affiliation here. But ultimately, Marko has all the data required to make the driver decisions. Unlike you, I don't have a like or hate for Honda or for Tsunoda. I am speaking as I see things on the track. I don't think Honda has any leverage over AT to keep Tsunoda in that race seat, which you speak as a fact. Heck, even if Honda does, they might want to experiment for Ayuma Iwasa in place of Tsunoda! Who would stop? Last point, you are factually incorrect about Tsunoda's performance in the second half.

[rbirules]

he was the better driver than Gasly .he beat him in the second half in all races expert singapore and mexico.

2022 second half:
SPA: Gasly - 9th, Yuki - 13th
Zandvoort: Gasly - 11th, Yuki - DNF
Monza: Gasly - 8th, Yuki - 14th
Singapore: Gasly - 10th, Yuki - DNF
Suzuka: Gasly - 18th, Yuki - 13th
COTA: Gasly - 14th, Yuki - 10th
Mexico: Gasly - 11th, Yuki - DNF
Brazil: Gasly - 14th, Yuki - 17th
Abu Dhabi: Gasly - 14th, Yuki - 11th

Yuki beat Gasly in three of nine races after the summer break last year. It was three to three if you remove all of his DNFs. Gasly had three point finishes to one for Yuki.

[PhillipM]

It should also be noted that Max does TONS of sim racing, in a cockpit that doesn't move, and with a brake pedal that probably does not offer much feel.

So he was never going to be hindered by any lack of feel caused by anti-dive geometry.

Even then we saw it catch him out even just driving around in free air with no pressure. The biggest problem with anti-dive is the second there's a track surface undulation, bump or curb involved your contact patch pressure spikes incredibly quickly and there's pretty much nothing you can do about it. It'll be interesting to see if the RB's suffer at Monaco or if they run different front suspension there to alleviate it. I suspect we'll see some modified wishbones.

[AR3-GP]

It should also be noted that Max does TONS of sim racing, in a cockpit that doesn't move, and with a brake pedal that probably does not offer much feel.

So he was never going to be hindered by any lack of feel caused by anti-dive geometry.

Even then we saw it catch him out even just driving around in free air with no pressure. The biggest problem with anti-dive is the second there's a track surface undulation, bump or curb involved your contact patch pressure spikes incredibly quickly and there's pretty much nothing you can do about it. It'll be interesting to see if the RB's suffer at Monaco or if they run different front suspension there to alleviate it. I suspect we'll see some modified wishbones.

I think it's quite a leap to claim that brake lockup is attributed to the Rb's anti-dive geometry. And to be speculating about "modified wishbones"? Red Bull already had a similarly extreme suspension geometry last year and the driver had 1 lockup into T13 in melbourne. Aston Martin has a similarly aggressive front suspension. Will they modify their wishbones for Monaco too? I think we are jumping to far too many conclusions. Talking about modifying suspension wishbones because a driver locked up. Come on....are you just hoping the RB has a flaw?

Drivers have been locking up wheels for decades. Mercedes was notorious for front inside wheel lockup in turn 1 in Mexico for quite a few years from 2014-2022. Hamilton kept front inside wheel locking in Turn 10 in Bahrain in '21 an ran off the circuit there in the final laps of the race. Russell even ran off the circuit with inside wheel lockup in T10 in Bahrain during the '23 race. So are you saying this is also because of "anti-dive geometry"? Will Mercedes have new wishbones for Monaco too?

You know better, I'm sure you do.

[chrisc90]

Christian Horner responds to Mercedes driver George Russell's claim that Red Bull are sandbagging to hide pace...



Original: firstSportz on Facebook.

[Farnborough]

I feel MV displays exceptional front brake sensitivity as not often observed with any significant front locking.

RB 18 seemed to have very similar levels without problem last time there in Monaco too.

Reported he brakes earlier than SP as well (is that true? ) but not information on comparative levels between the two, would be logical for the later application to have higher pedal pressure though, and potentially more vulnerable to feeling lock limits with finese.