2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[saviour stivala]

FIA rules allows 60% size scale model. Teams are only allowed the use of one wind-tunnel. teams are not allowed to run faster than 180km/h- 50m/s - 110mph.

[chrisc90]

FIA rules allows 60% size scale model. Teams are only allowed the use of one wind-tunnel. teams are not allowed to run faster than 180km/h- 50m/s - 110mph.

I mean if the Italian media article is correct about the models being outside the permitted tolerances, then that is a breach of the regulations.

[AR3-GP]

FIA rules allows 60% size scale model. Teams are only allowed the use of one wind-tunnel. teams are not allowed to run faster than 180km/h- 50m/s - 110mph.

I mean if the Italian media article is correct about the models being outside the permitted tolerances, then that is a breach of the regulations.

That is a very interesting point....

[saviour stivala]

FIA rules allows 60% size scale model. Teams are only allowed the use of one wind-tunnel. teams are not allowed to run faster than 180km/h- 50m/s - 110mph.

I mean if the Italian media article is correct about the models being outside the permitted tolerances, then that is a breach of the regulations.

In the mechanical engineering field, in general sense, the ward 'tolerance' means acceptable limit.

[CMC]

Does the relevant article in the regulations specify a tolerance (per the wording "permitted tolerances")? Or does it only state that the model can be at most 60% of full scale? In the latter case, there is no "tolerance," only an upper limit.

The team themselves will likely have specified their own tolerances for the production of the scale model. It's possible the "permitted tolerances" noted in the translation of the article would only be referring to the team's internally specified tolerances for their model, in which case the model could be either over or under-sized to be outside their "permitted tolerances." I don't think it's been explicitly stated that the models were too large. If the regulations specifically state the wind tunnel model is permitted to be a maximum of 60% scale, then are teams likely to be aiming for 58% +2%/-0%, or some such? As with many wordings in the FIA rulebook, this could be a gray area, and to me it seems unlikely the FIA will be coming after them for any punitive reasons. It does seem to be a self-imposed punishment regardless, if the stories are accurate.

[saviour stivala]

Tolerances sets the allowable deviation from assigned dimensions - total amount a dimension may very (difference between the upper maximum and lower minimum limits). Only 60% scale model should be used. (No RWTT may be carried out using a scale model and RATG which is greater than 60% of full size). RWTT = restricted wind tunnel testing. RATG = restricted aerodynamic test geometry.

[Venturiation]

Duchessa reports also now on the rumours earlier this season

parts used in the wind tunnel (to scale) were inaccurate and produced outside the permitted tolerances. These problems have not only affected the development of the W14 but also in terms of correlation. This also led to the dismissal of some people who followed the production.

Obviously Italian media so they're much more reliable when it comes to Ferrari, but previously the info of the tolerances/Allison's inclusion had been lower quality sources iirc.

so did the car underperform because of bad models they couldn't use all it's performance

or the bad model made it look way faster in the tunnel but impossible on track

[saviour stivala]

"Parts used in the wind tunnel (to scale) were inaccurate and produced outside the permitted 'tolerances'. Meaning the maufucture of parts were inacuratly manufactured (prtoduced outside the permitted tolerance. This permitted toleranc is Mercedes parts design 'tolerance and noting to do with FIA permitted maximum scale model of 60%.

[PlatinumZealot]

James Allison is back!

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... /10458942/

So Mike failed upwards eh?

[PlatinumZealot]

If the parts were over sized, surely they could have been too small otherwise is there a regulation that stops a bigger model being run?

It's not the size of the parts. It's the tolerances.

[AR3-GP]

If the parts were over sized, surely they could have been too small otherwise is there a regulation that stops a bigger model being run?

It's not the size of the parts. It's the tolerances.

That's equivalent to the size of the parts . They were either the "right" size or the "wrong" size.

[PlatinumZealot]

If the parts were over sized, surely they could have been too small otherwise is there a regulation that stops a bigger model being run?

It's not the size of the parts. It's the tolerances.

That's equivalent to the size of the parts . They were either the "right" size or the "wrong" size.

Not how it works....

Tolerances:
Surface finish
Gaps
Tightness
Curvature
Etc.

All of these would have the same size but give wrong results because the tolerances were breached.

[saviour stivala]

In simple terms parts produced were produced not within design 'tolerance'. Design 'tolerances' belongs to the manufacturer designing and the production of said parts, and nothing to do with the mandated maximum scale model that must be used.

[Mattchu]

We don`t know if it`s Dimensional or Geometric with regards to the tolerances so anything is just speculation. Some examples of Geometric.

I would also add flexibility to the list PZ, this could have an influence on parts such as the floor, wings, etc.

[Venturiation]

We don`t know if it`s Dimensional or Geometric with regards to the tolerances so anything is just speculation. Some examples of Geometric.

I would also add flexibility to the list PZ, this could have an influence on parts such as the floor, wings, etc.

https://i.postimg.cc/50vMRSLC/geom.png

i thing it's the flexibility , if it was something visble they would have spotted it easly

mistakes when scaling the flexibility from the car to the wind tunnel model