2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[Xyz22]

Says the chief engineer Xyz22.

So Ferrari has done a good job on the SF 23? For now, a slower car in the race compared to the Aston Martin? Because Leclerc (as a driver) was clearly quicker than Alonso (and anyone else) in this track.

Anyway at least we saw an improvement in this race. No drama strategy wise and bit more speed compared to the first 3 races.

The SF-23 got pole position comfortably and you're saying that Ferrari did a terrible job and that the chassis is not to be saved.

The problem Ferrari is having is that the car is peaky. The pure pace is there - obviously - but what they need to focus on now is the performance in the race. For some reason the car loses pace as soon as it's heavy. It seems to be more understeery and less balanced.

Again with this pole position narrative. If the car doesn't work as well in the race there is a problem with the car which means that the work done behind is not good, because the goal was winning the WDC and therefore being faster than Red Bull in the race which is where you score points.

Leclerc seems to agree with me

[Alonsismo]

It's a hard read. Sainz was not very quick at all but Leclerc even managed to take pole here in the SF21 so there's some element of Leclerc having an understanding of this circuit that other drivers are not capable of.

In many ways the performance isn't too disimilar to Bahrain. Leclerc could have had pole there, but they didn't do their second run in Q3. Then Leclerc was way in front of his teammate, while Sainz was defending from Hamilton, again.

It just makes Jeddah the outlier more than anything. Charles had the grid penalty in Australia after qualifying on the front row.

The SF21 lacked in many areas, but it had exceptionally good mechanical grip which plays a big role in Baku. That year Charles also took pole in Monaco by over 2 tenths.

In this year's qualifying the fastest car other than a Ferrari and RedBull was Hamilton's Mercedes in fifth and he was 1 second behind. That's a serious gap which was not only up to Charles' masterclass. I know Sainz was 8 tenths back in fourth, but while he simply never got it right this weekend, there is no reason to believe Hamilton did not exploit his car's potential.

I don't doubt Hamilton. What I'm saying is that Leclerc drove the same race in Bahrain already before his DNF. He had a sniff of pole if he did a second run, was miles ahead of Sainz, was only being matched by Alonso, and Sainz only marginally beat Hamilton that day. The same thing happened here in Baku.

As some pointed out, Ferrari didn't actually bring upgrades (and neither did AMR or Mercedes). So these results are consistent in that Ferrari are just consolidating and actually finishing races with the car they originally had in Bahrain. Jeddah is the only outlier.

We forget that Charles had the grid penalty in Australia, and then DNF'd on the first lap. So Charles likely would have been at this level in Australia too.

leclerc had a penalty in arabia, but not in australia

[AR3-GP]

The SF21 lacked in many areas, but it had exceptionally good mechanical grip which plays a big role in Baku. That year Charles also took pole in Monaco by over 2 tenths.

In this year's qualifying the fastest car other than a Ferrari and RedBull was Hamilton's Mercedes in fifth and he was 1 second behind. That's a serious gap which was not only up to Charles' masterclass. I know Sainz was 8 tenths back in fourth, but while he simply never got it right this weekend, there is no reason to believe Hamilton did not exploit his car's potential.

I don't doubt Hamilton. What I'm saying is that Leclerc drove the same race in Bahrain already before his DNF. He had a sniff of pole if he did a second run, was miles ahead of Sainz, was only being matched by Alonso, and Sainz only marginally beat Hamilton that day. The same thing happened here in Baku.

As some pointed out, Ferrari didn't actually bring upgrades (and neither did AMR or Mercedes). So these results are consistent in that Ferrari are just consolidating and actually finishing races with the car they originally had in Bahrain. Jeddah is the only outlier.

We forget that Charles had the grid penalty in Australia, and then DNF'd on the first lap. So Charles likely would have been at this level in Australia too.

leclerc had a penalty in arabia, but not in australia

Sorry that's correct. That would just leave the DNF as the important detail. We never saw Charle's pace in Australia. Sainz was already pretty good there.

[dialtone]

Not race related:

In WEC the 6h of Spa sold 2.5x the tickets of previous year. Tell me again that Ferrari isn't worth extra payment in F1.

[LM10]

Again with this pole position narrative. If the car doesn't work as well in the race there is a problem with the car which means that the work done behind is not good, because the goal was winning the WDC and therefore being faster than Red Bull in the race which is where you score points.

Leclerc seems to agree with me

Nothing Leclerc told there was agreeing with you. He simply pointed out the obvious which is that the car lacks performance in race pace and they need to work on that. Which in fact is what I've been saying. You, on the other hand, believe that Ferrari did a terrible job with the chassis and need to bin it. I don't think that's what Leclerc believes.

[Vanja #66]

Again with this pole position narrative. If the car doesn't work as well in the race there is a problem with the car which means that the work done behind is not good, because the goal was winning the WDC and therefore being faster than Red Bull in the race which is where you score points.

Leclerc seems to agree with me

Yes, the car is crap, without upgrades battling out with decently upgraded RB for fastest lap late in the race on the same tyres of same life.

Seriously, Scuderia's biggest problems right now are Vigna/Elkann, strategy and operations team, high-quality engineering leads leaving, questionable reliability, Sainz' pace and then the SF-23 and its pace.

[Xyz22]

Alonso also agrees that the SF 23 is not a good race car and the result was helped by the track




Let's see what will happen in Miami which is an interesting benchmark.

Hopefully Ferrari will be able to get a few top engineers from RB as well. They need to improve the team, everywhere.

[LM10]

I don't doubt Hamilton. What I'm saying is that Leclerc drove the same race in Bahrain already before his DNF. He had a sniff of pole if he did a second run, was miles ahead of Sainz, was only being matched by Alonso, and Sainz only marginally beat Hamilton that day. The same thing happened here in Baku.

As some pointed out, Ferrari didn't actually bring upgrades (and neither did AMR or Mercedes). So these results are consistent in that Ferrari are just consolidating and actually finishing races with the car they originally had in Bahrain. Jeddah is the only outlier.

We forget that Charles had the grid penalty in Australia, and then DNF'd on the first lap. So Charles likely would have been at this level in Australia too.

Ferrari's car is the same as in Bahrain, but it's definitely being understood more in terms of setup by the team. In my opinion the step forward in race pace was visible. Especially considering tyre deg. A fastest lap of the race on 30 laps old Hards would have not been possible in the previous races.

[Alonsismo]

I don't doubt Hamilton. What I'm saying is that Leclerc drove the same race in Bahrain already before his DNF. He had a sniff of pole if he did a second run, was miles ahead of Sainz, was only being matched by Alonso, and Sainz only marginally beat Hamilton that day. The same thing happened here in Baku.

As some pointed out, Ferrari didn't actually bring upgrades (and neither did AMR or Mercedes). So these results are consistent in that Ferrari are just consolidating and actually finishing races with the car they originally had in Bahrain. Jeddah is the only outlier.

We forget that Charles had the grid penalty in Australia, and then DNF'd on the first lap. So Charles likely would have been at this level in Australia too.

leclerc had a penalty in arabia, but not in australia

Sorry that's correct. That would just leave the DNF as the important detail. We never saw Charle's pace in Australia. Sainz was already pretty good there.

i think that in australia, leclerc wouldnt have been faster than sainz.
sainz was ahead on qualy and made a great race.
i think that the most possible situation por melbourne could have been a p4 for sainz and a p5 for lec (without SC or random things)

[jambuka]

What upgrades are coming for Miami ?

[Vinlarr89]

What upgrades are coming for Miami ?

Not enough

[f1316]

Listen, the car’s much better than it was, including one lap and race pace. 17 seconds or so gap to the RBs - who were undeniably pushing (Charles may soften a bit when he realises that) - is pretty similar to how they were in the second half of 2022. That’s not good enough - they needed to be catching back up to RB this year - but it’s not this unbelievable RB advantage (akin to Mercedes 2014) that looked like it could have been the case in races 1-3.

Now that the baseline seems to be stable, making the car faster through upgrades is obviously part of that; but changing the mechanical setup through planned suspension changes seems like it’s the main thing. There will also be races where getting on pole will provide more protection than in Baku, so we will see if one lap pace continues to be strong on those circuits and, if so, that alone may provide more of a Sunday spectacle.

Overall, with perspective, we can’t be disappointed with how this weekend went vs expectations.

[AR3-GP]

I don't doubt Hamilton. What I'm saying is that Leclerc drove the same race in Bahrain already before his DNF. He had a sniff of pole if he did a second run, was miles ahead of Sainz, was only being matched by Alonso, and Sainz only marginally beat Hamilton that day. The same thing happened here in Baku.

As some pointed out, Ferrari didn't actually bring upgrades (and neither did AMR or Mercedes). So these results are consistent in that Ferrari are just consolidating and actually finishing races with the car they originally had in Bahrain. Jeddah is the only outlier.

We forget that Charles had the grid penalty in Australia, and then DNF'd on the first lap. So Charles likely would have been at this level in Australia too.

Ferrari's car is the same as in Bahrain, but it's definitely being understood more in terms of setup by the team. In my opinion the step forward in race pace was visible. Especially considering tyre deg. A fastest lap of the race on 30 laps old Hards would have not been possible in the previous races.

This circuit turned out to be quite low deg for everyone. Ocon did the entire race on the hard tire.

As I said previously, Jeddah was the only actual bad performance.

[Xyz22]

I don't doubt Hamilton. What I'm saying is that Leclerc drove the same race in Bahrain already before his DNF. He had a sniff of pole if he did a second run, was miles ahead of Sainz, was only being matched by Alonso, and Sainz only marginally beat Hamilton that day. The same thing happened here in Baku.

As some pointed out, Ferrari didn't actually bring upgrades (and neither did AMR or Mercedes). So these results are consistent in that Ferrari are just consolidating and actually finishing races with the car they originally had in Bahrain. Jeddah is the only outlier.

We forget that Charles had the grid penalty in Australia, and then DNF'd on the first lap. So Charles likely would have been at this level in Australia too.

Ferrari's car is the same as in Bahrain, but it's definitely being understood more in terms of setup by the team. In my opinion the step forward in race pace was visible. Especially considering tyre deg. A fastest lap of the race on 30 laps old Hards would have not been possible in the previous races.

This circuit turned out to be quite low deg for everyone. Ocon did the entire race on the hard tire.

As I said previously, Jeddah was the only actual bad performance.

Finishing behind RB is a bad performance if your goal is to win. Having said that, clearly Jeddah was the outlier and was way worse than Bahrain, Melbourne and Baku.

It's also true that they probably understood the car a bit better and the performance was even better here.

[AR3-GP]

Ferrari's car is the same as in Bahrain, but it's definitely being understood more in terms of setup by the team. In my opinion the step forward in race pace was visible. Especially considering tyre deg. A fastest lap of the race on 30 laps old Hards would have not been possible in the previous races.

This circuit turned out to be quite low deg for everyone. Ocon did the entire race on the hard tire.

As I said previously, Jeddah was the only actual bad performance.

Finishing behind RB is a bad performance if your goal is to win. Having said that, clearly Jeddah was the outlier and was way worse than Bahrain, Melbourne and Baku.

It's also true that they probably understood the car a bit better and the performance was even better here.

Yes "bad" in relative terms . and yeah I believe the drivers say the car is nicer to drive now, but I don't think the setup changes made the car fundamentally a couple tenths faster. They still need upgrades for that.

Leclerc was in striking distance of pole in Bahrain, but never did a 2nd run. The car is now more manageable over the stint, but we have seen flashes of the inherent pace everywhere already except for Jeddah.

This is what they have. Leclerc when he's driving well is going to qualify miles ahead of AMR, but then have to face Alonso in the race. Sainz will continue to pick up the rear, fending off the Mercs some ways behind.