2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[SmallSoldier]

RBs are incredibly slippy with DRS open and closed so they can afford the DF, we have no such slippiness and the balance has to be traded very carefully. I don't think the tyres were going off a cliff either or that we had too much deg at that point, it looked like an attempt at an undercut that didn't pan out, so I cannot move beyond the fact that the DF was a waste and the wrong focus.

In terms of hulk, for several laps he did not have DRS so I think that scrubbing the wing a bit would have helped.
The car is not the fastest, but it has more pace than they allowed it to show today and I maintain my point that had we gone with a lower DF setup we would have had a better result, obviously that is just my opinion.

Regarding a huge delta, you don't need a huge delta, you need to be able to put pressure on the guy in front to make a mistake trying to cover and work your opportunity, it's just as common as blasting past someone on outright pace and more fun to watch. We were a cats whisker of pace away from being able to start pushing Lando into Hulks rear.

Not trying to convince you, just giving you a different perspective… But there were a couple of interesting points in your last post:

Indeed Hulk didn’t had for a handful of laps, but he was still in within 1.2 seconds from Ocon, therefore with a huge tow… The problem was that Lando couldn’t get closer exiting the last corner, which wasn’t a DF problem.

You mention that you have to put pressure on the car in front, if been in within 7-9 tenths of the car in front for 80% of the stint isn’t pressure, I don’t know what is.

Let’s say that McLaren would have chosen a lower DF config, that may have allowed them to make it pass Hulk and Ocon, was it going to make them finish ahead of Mercedes or AMR? I very much doubt it… The end result was the one expected, they finished the race in P9 behind the top 4 teams.

[McL-H]

I maintain my point that had we gone with a lower DF setup we would have had a better result, obviously that is just my opinion.

Maybe. Maybe not. Fact is that the team had only 1 hour to test the new parts and had to make a decision for the entire weekend. After P1 cars were under parc fermé. The team would have ran their simulations before the weekend and decided this was the way to go.

Coming from where we were in Australia, this weekend was all about learning about the new package and any points would be a big plus and we got that. Realistically, we were the 5th fastest team over the weekend and finished 9th and 11th. I don’t think there was much more to gain. The top 4 are still a bit too far off right now. But by getting to understand the new package better, the team might set another step forward in upcoming races.

[AR3-GP]

Teams use simulation tools to determine the best car configuration. It might be dissapointing that Lando didn't have the top speed for easy overtaking, but the only reason Mclaren ran like this is because the simulator said it was the fastest way (of the configurations that they had available to them). Maybe a lower downforce specification for the upgraded car is just not ready.

[Mostlyeels]

Indeed Hulk didn’t had for a handful of laps, but he was still in within 1.2 seconds from Ocon, therefore with a huge tow… The problem was that Lando couldn’t get closer exiting the last corner, which wasn’t a DF problem.

Turn 16? Or turn 1?

You mention that you have to put pressure on the car in front, if been in within 7-9 tenths of the car in front for 80% of the stint isn’t pressure, I don’t know what is.

Those hards lasted way way longer than I expected, before they dropped off. Guenther said it I think, they're very stable, especially in a long stint like this.

[BMMR61]

I think we need to view the weekend in terms of how the new parts worked and did it reduce the gap to the top 4 teams. I think most would agree the parts were a qualified success and cemented the team as 5th quickest which you couldn’t say before the weekend. I saw a comment somewhere else that the team regarded Baku as not favourable to the car’s overall characteristics. That being the case it was brave to launch the upgrades there and not Miami with the reduced practice time available. It didn’t work for Alpine so we stole a significant march over the French team. With plenty of practice time next weekend the guys can even apply some extra developments of a subtle form to keep the development going.

Regards closing the gap, it’s hard to be truly upbeat but Mercedes do seem to be making hard work of things atm. If, as some theorise there’s still 0.2 left in optimising the current upgrades and Miami is better suited to the characteristics then a nailed down top 4 teams may be under threat. It’s all speculation but I said after the first disastrous round that the team would bounce back strongly, I’m more than encouraged by the progress as well as the boldness Zak has taken to remove the rot and promote those who have shown the necessary leadership qualities. Tom Clarkson’s Beyond the Grid interview with Rob Smedley and Pedro de la Rosa revealed enormous respect for Andrea Stella. All his interviews have been decisively impressive, quite the opposite to his predecessor.

[Mostlyeels]

Teams use simulation tools to determine the best car configuration. It might be dissapointing that Lando didn't have the top speed for easy overtaking, but the only reason Mclaren ran like this is because the simulator said it was the fastest way (of the configurations that they had available to them). Maybe a lower downforce specification for the upgraded car is just not ready.

I wonder if they run the sims on both scenarios e.g. in free air, and also bottled up in a train behind a car that is saving tyres for a long stint? They must do both, I assume.

[mwillems]

RBs are incredibly slippy with DRS open and closed so they can afford the DF, we have no such slippiness and the balance has to be traded very carefully. I don't think the tyres were going off a cliff either or that we had too much deg at that point, it looked like an attempt at an undercut that didn't pan out, so I cannot move beyond the fact that the DF was a waste and the wrong focus.

In terms of hulk, for several laps he did not have DRS so I think that scrubbing the wing a bit would have helped.
The car is not the fastest, but it has more pace than they allowed it to show today and I maintain my point that had we gone with a lower DF setup we would have had a better result, obviously that is just my opinion.

Regarding a huge delta, you don't need a huge delta, you need to be able to put pressure on the guy in front to make a mistake trying to cover and work your opportunity, it's just as common as blasting past someone on outright pace and more fun to watch. We were a cats whisker of pace away from being able to start pushing Lando into Hulks rear.

Not trying to convince you, just giving you a different perspective… But there were a couple of interesting points in your last post:

Indeed Hulk didn’t had for a handful of laps, but he was still in within 1.2 seconds from Ocon, therefore with a huge tow… The problem was that Lando couldn’t get closer exiting the last corner, which wasn’t a DF problem.

You mention that you have to put pressure on the car in front, if been in within 7-9 tenths of the car in front for 80% of the stint isn’t pressure, I don’t know what is.

Let’s say that McLaren would have chosen a lower DF config, that may have allowed them to make it pass Hulk and Ocon, was it going to make them finish ahead of Mercedes or AMR? I very much doubt it… The end result was the one expected, they finished the race in P9 behind the top 4 teams.

If you are consistently 7 to 9 tenths away and not getting close the car to make it take defensive manoeuvres then it isn't pressure at all and the telemetry shows that we were consistently faster through the corners, as you'd expect on 17 (I think) lap newer tyres. You need to be right on the guys tail to force the errors, even if you aren't fast enough to get by.

You are also underplaying the lack of DRS Hulk he had for quite some time, not a few laps, and the amount of time he would have lost for it.

In terms of the final statement I can only imagine that is based on the starting positions, which we know if we'd had the tow could well have been totally different, and that was part of my point. So I don't think P9 was what the team could have hoped for today if it had executed the strategies correctly throughout the weekend.

But it's OK, it happens, sometimes the strategy isn't quite right, this weekend it certainly wasn't, we have to own it, and own the fact that we could have finished higher if we'd done better. 9th was not the best this team could have hoped for this weekend.

But it is only an opinion and I'm not berating the team. I'm not saying the car is a brick, I'm not blaming James Key for my cat being run over last year, it's just not the first time I've seen this team veering towards higher DF strategies and when I have seen it it hasn't worked too well. Sadly I can't remember the specific races.

[mwillems]

Teams use simulation tools to determine the best car configuration. It might be dissapointing that Lando didn't have the top speed for easy overtaking, but the only reason Mclaren ran like this is because the simulator said it was the fastest way (of the configurations that they had available to them). Maybe a lower downforce specification for the upgraded car is just not ready.

I wonder if they run the sims on both scenarios e.g. in free air, and also bottled up in a train behind a car that is saving tyres for a long stint? They must do both, I assume.

They will also have probabilities for certain scenarios of what is likely and what is not so certain situations will be weighted heavier than others and the resultant strategy based on that.

If anyone were to suggest that being aware of what the fastest strategy is on paper means they made a right call for a given race is missing the point. Teams also have their own bias towards configurations that sit on top of the models that they use to determine the correct configuration. Then have a quick chat with Ferrari and ask them if Strategy is straight forward and clear cut.

[SmallSoldier]

Indeed Hulk didn’t had for a handful of laps, but he was still in within 1.2 seconds from Ocon, therefore with a huge tow… The problem was that Lando couldn’t get closer exiting the last corner, which wasn’t a DF problem.

Turn 16? Or turn 1?

You mention that you have to put pressure on the car in front, if been in within 7-9 tenths of the car in front for 80% of the stint isn’t pressure, I don’t know what is.

Those hards lasted way way longer than I expected, before they dropped off. Guenther said it I think, they're very stable, especially in a long stint like this.

I mean Turn 16, in order to overtake a driver (regardless of car) needed to be in within 0.5 seconds exiting Turn 16 to complete an overtake, Lando wasn’t able to get in within that time delta all race, he will always lose time between T15 / T16, which is understandable, there was no reason to risk it and hit the wall.

Yes, I believe everyone was surprised by the hard tires, although when they finally fell of a cliff, it was sharp… Look at Hulk’s last few laps before he pitted, losing almost 3 seconds a lap

[djos]

That was a frustrating race, McLaren got screwed by the safety car timing and then McLaren fumbled Oscar’s pit stop which allowed Yuki to stay ahead of him.

[Mostlyeels]

Teams use simulation tools to determine the best car configuration. It might be dissapointing that Lando didn't have the top speed for easy overtaking, but the only reason Mclaren ran like this is because the simulator said it was the fastest way (of the configurations that they had available to them). Maybe a lower downforce specification for the upgraded car is just not ready.

I wonder if they run the sims on both scenarios e.g. in free air, and also bottled up in a train behind a car that is saving tyres for a long stint? They must do both, I assume.

They will also have probabilities for certain scenarios of what is likely and what is not so certain situations will be weighted heavier than others and the resultant strategy based on that.

It's interesting, I always find there's a "feeling" like a binary switch is about to be flipped on strategy changes when the race is within predicted safety car window. It's like you can feel the probability begin to shift towards it; maybe it's just in the way the commentators (and now ex-pro strategy engineer) start to talk and react during that period.

[Mostlyeels]

Indeed Hulk didn’t had for a handful of laps, but he was still in within 1.2 seconds from Ocon, therefore with a huge tow… The problem was that Lando couldn’t get closer exiting the last corner, which wasn’t a DF problem.

Turn 16? Or turn 1?

You mention that you have to put pressure on the car in front, if been in within 7-9 tenths of the car in front for 80% of the stint isn’t pressure, I don’t know what is.

Those hards lasted way way longer than I expected, before they dropped off. Guenther said it I think, they're very stable, especially in a long stint like this.

I mean Turn 16, in order to overtake a driver (regardless of car) needed to be in within 0.5 seconds exiting Turn 16 to complete an overtake, Lando wasn’t able to get in within that time delta all race, he will always lose time between T15 / T16, which is understandable, there was no reason to risk it and hit the wall.

Yes, I believe everyone was surprised by the hard tires, although when they finally fell of a cliff, it was sharp… Look at Hulk’s last few laps before he pitted, losing almost 3 seconds a lap

Cool, that's what I figured (T15/16). Also, Williams surprised with good traction on exits at the end of the last stint, for me.

Hulk falling off the cliff was spectacular, Lando took off like a champagne cork.

[mwillems]

Hulk dropped 2 seconds of time before he pitted and it appears to be in part do an incident on lap 45. He was happily cruising doing 1.47s to a delta up till lap 44 (Though you could see a few tenths deg) and then on Lap 45 he was near 3 seconds slower (1.49.701), I can only assume he locked up or something, perhaps took some damage. He then did a 1.47.65 on lap 46, followed by 1.48.374 and 1.49.008 before pitting with the tyres finished off.

Norris was 1s per lap faster when released from behind Hulk.

[mwillems]

I wonder if they run the sims on both scenarios e.g. in free air, and also bottled up in a train behind a car that is saving tyres for a long stint? They must do both, I assume.

They will also have probabilities for certain scenarios of what is likely and what is not so certain situations will be weighted heavier than others and the resultant strategy based on that.

It's interesting, I always find there's a "feeling" like a binary switch is about to be flipped on strategy changes when the race is within predicted safety car window. It's like you can feel the probability begin to shift towards it; maybe it's just in the way the commentators (and now ex-pro strategy engineer) start to talk and react during that period.

Not much that could be done for that safety car, if we'd had wait a couple of laps to pit it'd be a different story.
Lando's pace was not dissimilar to Strolls when he had a chance to run, that's why I'm miffed at Qualy! But at this point it's too early to suggest our fastest car is close to the slowest AM. But I think it was in this race, we are better than we look.

What is doubly frustrating is that we pitted I think for an undercut of sorts not because we needed to, Norris was 2 tenths down on his fastest time the lap before he pitted and had we qualified a little further ahead we wouldn't have that same consideration. It's all ifs and buts now, but deeply frustrating.

[runningmanz]

Yikes, Piastri apparently only had about 4 pieces of toast for the whole weekend. How the heck was he able to drive like he did all weekend? Amazing effort. Hope he feels back to normal by Miami.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/05/01/rac ... p-01-05-6/

As for the car at Baku, as much as we are still suffering drag issues, it was mostly down to the DRS being too short as there was not much passing at all across the board apart from the RBR rocketships. Really excited for the rest of the season though. It seems things are really starting to track in the right direction now and we haven't even started using the new wind tunnel and other new infrastructure properly yet.