2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

Designed for higher ride height after a rule change aimed at allowing lower ride heights... An amazing blunder, if true...

[toraabe]

It's not clear that Mercedes solved their drag problem.

All they did was bolt on a lower downforce, lower drag rear wing. Now Hamilton complains that he lacks confidence in the rear of the car, and Mercedes say the car does not have enough downforce.

Chopping up the rear wing has that effect...

As I have mentioned before. I a sure that they have slightly miscalculated the final drive that is a bit too short. The engine is reaching it target rpm with Drs closed in which is fine. RB reaches the same rpm with its Drs open and 35 km higher top speed. Due to the fuel restrictions and that the maximum fuel flow occurs at 10500 rpm, all the engines has basically more or less the same power curve. They can change the final drive ratio, but it has to be declared and approved by all the other teams. Any taughts on this?

Interesting theory.

Look at this. Difference between Alpine and Mercedes

[Xyz22]

The weak rear end is probably the reason why they are forced to use these really "big" rear wings?

[Farnborough]

Same old weak rear down-force story. Same problem from 2021. Same problem from 2017 and 2015.

Certainly agree with that. Often a "sophisticated" solution was offered in the past with various technical derived development to cope with their own descriptors of chassis inadequacies. They made effective use of that approach most definitely, but with closer power parity (ability to cover off sub par areas of chassis) now and formidable aero platform integration of leading cars, the results are exposed more to that definitive aero balance some of the other design teams are enacting.

[AR3-GP]

The weak rear end is probably the reason why they are forced to use these really "big" rear wings?

I've thought about this, but then I don't understand why teams like Williams and Alpine use such small wings here. Surely those teams have even less downforce than Mercedes. So why doesn't Mercedes just set their car up to at least be able to overtake?

They have provided their drivers with a completely un-raceable car. Whatever advantage they had in the corners was useless here.

[Farnborough]

The weak rear end is probably the reason why they are forced to use these really "big" rear wings?

I've thought about this, but then I don't understand why teams like Williams and Alpine use such small wings here. Surely those teams have even less downforce than Mercedes. So why doesn't Mercedes just set their car up to at least be able to overtake?

They have provided their drivers with a completely un-raceable car. Whatever advantage they had in the corners was useless here.

They appear to have built themselves a real conundrum, taking load off the wings appears to give them no chance of getting heat into tyres, loading with wing substantially increased drag. GW noted that "they wouldn't no what to change" in Baku to make it improve!

They've competing aspects within the concept that prevent the whole performing as a homogeneous symphony.

[Xyz22]

The weak rear end is probably the reason why they are forced to use these really "big" rear wings?

I've thought about this, but then I don't understand why teams like Williams and Alpine use such small wings here. Surely those teams have even less downforce than Mercedes. So why doesn't Mercedes just set their car up to at least be able to overtake?

They have provided their drivers with a completely un-raceable car. Whatever advantage they had in the corners was useless here.

They appear to have built themselves a real conundrum, taking load off the wings appears to give them no chance of getting heat into tyres, loading with wing substantially increased drag. GW noted that "they wouldn't no what to change" in Baku to make it improve!

They've competing aspects within the concept that prevent the whole performing as a homogeneous symphony.

Agreed. What is strange is that they had this issue last year as well. In some specific tracks, where they could hit their sweet spot, the car was actually quite quick especially in race trim but it was clear they had to make huge changes to be competitive everywhere.

[Farnborough]

I've thought about this, but then I don't understand why teams like Williams and Alpine use such small wings here. Surely those teams have even less downforce than Mercedes. So why doesn't Mercedes just set their car up to at least be able to overtake?

They have provided their drivers with a completely un-raceable car. Whatever advantage they had in the corners was useless here.

They appear to have built themselves a real conundrum, taking load off the wings appears to give them no chance of getting heat into tyres, loading with wing substantially increased drag. GW noted that "they wouldn't no what to change" in Baku to make it improve!

They've competing aspects within the concept that prevent the whole performing as a homogeneous symphony.

Agreed. What is strange is that they had this issue last year as well. In some specific tracks, where they could hit their sweet spot, the car was actually quite quick especially in race trim but it was clear they had to make huge changes to be competitive everywhere.

Australia a good example again this year, everyone getting excited about apparent progress, then comparatively nowhere the next race.

It's more like watching a roulette game than technical analysis

[Hammerfist]

The weak rear end is probably the reason why they are forced to use these really "big" rear wings?

I've thought about this, but then I don't understand why teams like Williams and Alpine use such small wings here. Surely those teams have even less downforce than Mercedes. So why doesn't Mercedes just set their car up to at least be able to overtake?

They have provided their drivers with a completely un-raceable car. Whatever advantage they had in the corners was useless here.

If they run a tiny wing on this car now it will make their tire wear and traction worse. I believe the way the car is configured now is the best way it can be configured.

I think they are delaying low df wings until the imola car. With the cost cap limitations its probably a good decision considering how many big changes are coming.

Someone said they dont expect the imola car to look much different. I disagree. It will be visually different. A lot more different than what mclaren has done with their baku update. Mike elliott alluded to that during the pre season test.

[Farnborough]

I think it would be true, or close to it, that they've found the absolute balance point of this concept.

If moved in any direction it shows specific limitations, sometimes that balance can coincide with track, temperature, atmospheric condition to give less limitations, then sometimes all those elements make it impossible to adapt.

It is really telling them it doesn't want to take much in the conventional sense to yeald what they are demanding.

[Evo2racer]

With the W14 being so ridiculous in terms of speed in Baku I am excited to see what will happen in Miami!

Regardless let’s hope the updated W14B is good because it really hurts watching F1 for any MB Amg fan this year!

[Farnborough]

They've some serious industrial strength thinking to do as deadlines are rolling up on them.

General consensus has May as the timeline to start preliminary aero concept for next year, and they haven't a concluding answer to their problems fully through sim yet, let alone track correlation to enable clear sight of their direction.

Put in driver concerns of seat position (dictated by cooling hardware arrangement? ) that will apparently carry any updates this year, you can start to see just how complicated these decisions become.

Significant update will indeed be very very interesting to view how the decisions made from pre season test period to now will affect the direction of development. There's serious pressure on all of them, not just for this in season improvement, but that ultimate path on next years car. A huge amount rolled into this with very little room for wrong step.

[Farnborough]

Oh! And cost cap too

[ValeVida46]

If they run a tiny wing on this car now it will make their tire wear and traction worse. I believe the way the car is configured now is the best way it can be configured.

I think they are delaying low df wings until the imola car. With the cost cap limitations its probably a good decision considering how many big changes are coming.

Someone said they dont expect the imola car to look much different. I disagree. It will be visually different. A lot more different than what mclaren has done with their baku update. Mike elliott alluded to that during the pre season test.

I think the bold part of your post is the nail on the head.

Changes are in the pipeline and it makes no sense to throw resources into a 1-track-specific update that won't correlate with the future iteration.

[mendis]

Same old weak rear down-force story. Same problem from 2021. Same problem from 2017 and 2015.

Did we not hear all through last year that they have most downforce of all teams, that can rip the tarmac out, but due to porpoising they are unable to show it?