2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Polite
Polite
18
Joined: 30 Oct 2018, 10:36

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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nope Wouter!

Nugnes said 1 was already working in the factory (the one involved with the design of the Rbr's DRS), while Balbo was in gardening.

Leo Turrini said yesterday that Balbo is in gardening but no new DT will come, so Weche refused.

Turrini is the most realiable.

Polite
Polite
18
Joined: 30 Oct 2018, 10:36

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
04 May 2023, 12:41
Polite wrote:
04 May 2023, 12:03
nope Wouter!

Nugnes said 1 was already working in the factory (the one involved with the design of the Rbr's DRS), while Balbo was in gardening.

Leo Turrini said yesterday that Balbo is in gardening but no new DT will come, so Weche refused.

Turrini is the most realiable.
.
Listen what Nugnes had to say. (from +/- 2:00 minutes)

Nughes says what i said ;)

LostInTranslation
LostInTranslation
3
Joined: 06 Jun 2017, 22:15

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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OK, got it.
Here is an interesting article (graphics and images are shown in the original website):

https://www.formulapassion.it/opinioni/ ... telemetria

“Ferrari's worst flaw is Red Bull's best quality
The speed differences in the various conditions allow us to analyze the dynamics of the SF23 and the RB19, discovering some key aspects - by FEDERICO ALBANO”

“The match in Azerbaijan, thanks to some peculiarities that occurred in the second part, brought to light a particularly interesting aspect. The minimal degradation suffered by the hard tires meant that in the final laps Charles Leclerc's Ferrari was able to maintain a pace similar to the Red Bulls, even disputing them the fastest lap of the race. Fernando Alonso in the Aston Martin also recorded times in line with Verstappen and Perez in the closing laps, and if it is true that the two of Red Bull had pushed at the start of the stint, engaged in the challenge with each other, not optimizing the introduction of tyres, it is equally true that, with the same tire and with the cars running out of petrol, we had returned to a level similar to qualifying, where we saw that SF23 can be close to or even contend for pole with the Red Bulls. In fact, it emerges that there is a more marked difference in performance between light and heavy car conditions for the Ferraris (but not only for them) and how, instead, there is a much more homogeneous behavior on the part of the two cars designed by Adrian Newey.
Telemetry data shows the first symptoms of the problem
To try to better understand the phenomenon, we compared two laps in conditions of high and low fuel load both for the winner Perez and for Leclerc, choosing the best lap at the start of the stint and the best lap at the end. What emerges is quite clear”.


“The speed differences in the corner (upper part) and the progression of the gap along the lap (lower part) are very different between the two riders. Perez is even faster with a high fuel load in some corners in the first sector, but above all with the light car he gains almost constantly throughout the lap, which is absolutely reasonable given the low degradation. Indeed, a lighter car guarantees an improvement in all aspects : corner entry, mileage, traction and braking. For Leclerc, however, the graph is very different. The differences between high and low fuel loads are much more pronounced, with even a second of time gained in the first sector and a graph of the gap that proceeds almost entirely "by steps" , i.e. the gap jumps at each corner, showing how, with so much petrol on board, there is a disproportionate loss for the Ferrari precisely in the moments in which the Monegasque tackles the various curves of the track. This shows that the main problem with full tanks for Ferrari is cornering speed . We had already written in our post-race analysis that this is synonymous with a particular sensitivity to the car's ground clearance , but we looked into it further and, with the kind collaboration of a team engineer, we were able to reconstruct theload curve on the suspensions as the speed of the cars progresses. Obviously we do not give absolute values, but simply "normalized" to have a reference”

“From these graphs we note how first of all there is an almost linear dependence between the speed and the compressive load that the car undergoes, with a similar slope between the load that the front undergoes and that which the rear undergoes (in a ratio of approximately 60/40 ). This means that, even at low speeds on slow or medium-slow corners like those on the Baku track, speed differences generate a significant variation in compression load . In addition, the compression load range is very wide indeed , with full straight-line compression being between 5.5 times and 6 timesgreater than that when cornering. An important datum, because it means that the progressive calibration of the suspension system is essential (and is made very complicated by the limitations imposed by the regulation), and that, if it is not possible to greatly minimize the response to a slow car, even a small difference in speed can lead to significant differences in ground clearance . Why do we link the two? Because there is a close link between all these factors: the main force that compresses the car on the ground is in fact given by the aerodynamic load , which increases as speed increases. What, on the other hand, keeps the single-seater off the ground is clearly theresponse of the suspensive packet . Obviously, the weight of the car also crushes the car towards the ground, but in a lower percentage than the aerodynamic component, while it is very significant laterally . A Formula 1 takes on average between 4 and 5 G of acceleration when cornering, and this means that the force which tends to take the car off the trajectory when cornering increases by 5kg for every kilo of fuel loaded”.
The vicious circle of SF23
“The balance of all this generates the performance of the single-seaters, and what seems to be happening on the Ferrari, data in hand, is the trigger of a vicious circle” .

“A car that is able to corner at high speed generates more vertical load , which compresses the car downwards. This decreases ground clearance and we know that (within certain limits) the lower the car gets, the greater the load produced. And a greater load leads to greater road holding and therefore to greater cornering speed and the virtuous circle starts again. Ferrari, on the other hand, seems forced to take a more cautious approach when cornering with the high fuel load. This causes the car to remain higher off the ground, reducing the load produced and consequently lowering road holding. Anegative spiral which leads to a marked difficulty in finding the correct balance, and which forces the drivers of the red to look for the limit in strongly changing conditions” .
Red Bull with stiff but "decoupled" suspension
“On the other hand, the RB19 seems, from this point of view, to have almost reached perfection , with a harmony between mechanics and aerodynamics that produces the dominance we are seeing on the track at the start of the season. First of all, it must be said that the starting concept of Newey's car seems to be less sensitive to the height from the ground to generate downforce, so much so that it even adopted a minimum of rake set-up also in the past season, and this, obviously, already makes the single-seater driven by Verstappen and Perez less subject to variations between the qualifying conditions and those of the race”.

“Furthermore, the mechanics of the Red Bull suspension package has reached such a refinement as to guarantee above all sufficient "softness" on bumps , with a behavior that seems totally independent between the 4 wheels, capable of absorbing curbs and bumps while keeping the car in perfect trim”.

“We have seen, however, that this behavior changes somewhat when the wheels experience loads in a coupled manner. This occurs in high-speed cornering, where the outer wheels are subjected to a greater load than the inner ones and there is a need for a lot of stiffness to counter roll, and in braking and traction phases, where the wheels are loaded in pairs to axle, and where the RB19 has shown, also in this case, to have minimal excursions. Preventing the car from rolling sideways when cornering keeps underfoot efficiency at its bestwhen travelling, i.e. when there is the greatest need for vertical load, while as far as the longitudinal axis is concerned, preventing the so-called "dive" of the single-seater in braking ensures minimizing transient aerodynamic regimes, giving the driver the best grip in entrance. Lastly, preventing the car from "sitting" in traction, in turn ensures that the load on the rear wheels is always ideal, guaranteeing maximum acceleration” .
Mechanics at the service of aerodynamics
“And these are all characteristics that we see every Sunday on the RedBull: the ability to absorb bumps and curbs better than its rivals, the generation of downforce when cornering, the "flipping" out of corners thanks to a "slingshot effect" traction and braking stability. At Red Bull, therefore, mechanics have been placed at the service of aerodynamics and the perfection of the result is there for all to see. In Maranello, on the other hand, this aspect still seems to be lacking, with a delicate balance on the suspension-heights package, lost after the famous TD39 and still not found today. It will be interesting to see if from Miami, with the updates, on a track where there is a need for lateral stiffness in the first sector and agility in the driven sector, there will be noticeable improvements for the red in this sense”.

Schippke
Schippke
12
Joined: 01 Sep 2020, 04:00
Location: Australia

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Despite all these revelations coming forward from/after Baku about Ferrari, I feel we should all be taking it with a bit of salt; Keep in mind that all the cars that weekend had (less than) 1 hour to dial themselves in before effectively being locked down for the rest of the weekend. So some might've been running in a better state than others. It very well could've been the case that Ferrari had dialled or sorted their setup better than Red Bull did... as what happened in Austria last year, albeit not to the same extent...

Yes, comments have been made about the pace of the Ferrari and Aston towards the end of the race being on a similar pace to the Red Bull... what makes others ignore that potentially Red Bull had just turned everything down and taken it easy? There wasn't even much point in getting fastest lap as Russell was on fresh tyres towards the end anyway.

Lets see how things go on a more traditional weekend Free Practice wise in Miami; Maybe the upgrades brought will bring Ferrari a bit further in front of Mercedes and Aston Martin... but I think you'll see a bigger gap in qualifying with Red Bull this weekend come end of qualifying. Happy to be proven wrong though!

SoulPancake13
SoulPancake13
1
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 18:49

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Schippke wrote:
04 May 2023, 14:05
Despite all these revelations coming forward from/after Baku about Ferrari, I feel we should all be taking it with a bit of salt; Keep in mind that all the cars that weekend had (less than) 1 hour to dial themselves in before effectively being locked down for the rest of the weekend. So some might've been running in a better state than others. It very well could've been the case that Ferrari had dialled or sorted their setup better than Red Bull did... as what happened in Austria last year, albeit not to the same extent...

Yes, comments have been made about the pace of the Ferrari and Aston towards the end of the race being on a similar pace to the Red Bull... what makes others ignore that potentially Red Bull had just turned everything down and taken it easy? There wasn't even much point in getting fastest lap as Russell was on fresh tyres towards the end anyway.

Lets see how things go on a more traditional weekend Free Practice wise in Miami; Maybe the upgrades brought will bring Ferrari a bit further in front of Mercedes and Aston Martin... but I think you'll see a bigger gap in qualifying with Red Bull this weekend come end of qualifying. Happy to be proven wrong though!
A quick look at the onboards can show this is false. Max and Checo were pushing fully. I think this just confirms the idea that on low fuel, the car runs as is expected. I mean, Charles out of nowhere got a fastest lap of the race towards the end on old hards. Don't think this problem can be fixed now unfortunately, so much to all of the revolutionary suspension work the team did over the summer... must be fixed again for next year.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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SoulPancake13 wrote:
04 May 2023, 15:22
Schippke wrote:
04 May 2023, 14:05
Despite all these revelations coming forward from/after Baku about Ferrari, I feel we should all be taking it with a bit of salt; Keep in mind that all the cars that weekend had (less than) 1 hour to dial themselves in before effectively being locked down for the rest of the weekend. So some might've been running in a better state than others. It very well could've been the case that Ferrari had dialled or sorted their setup better than Red Bull did... as what happened in Austria last year, albeit not to the same extent...

Yes, comments have been made about the pace of the Ferrari and Aston towards the end of the race being on a similar pace to the Red Bull... what makes others ignore that potentially Red Bull had just turned everything down and taken it easy? There wasn't even much point in getting fastest lap as Russell was on fresh tyres towards the end anyway.

Lets see how things go on a more traditional weekend Free Practice wise in Miami; Maybe the upgrades brought will bring Ferrari a bit further in front of Mercedes and Aston Martin... but I think you'll see a bigger gap in qualifying with Red Bull this weekend come end of qualifying. Happy to be proven wrong though!
A quick look at the onboards can show this is false. Max and Checo were pushing fully. I think this just confirms the idea that on low fuel, the car runs as is expected. I mean, Charles out of nowhere got a fastest lap of the race towards the end on old hards. Don't think this problem can be fixed now unfortunately, so much to all of the revolutionary suspension work the team did over the summer... must be fixed again for next year.
They could push fully but it doesn't mean they didn't turn down the deployment.

In any case, strategically speaking RB didn't run the race in a particularly clever way relative to the others even though they won. They won't be able to do that if the drivers are only trying to beat one another.

The fuel corrected laptime charts show that Red bull suffered from pretty high tire deg as a result of going flat out and this is partially why Aston and ferrari were able to match them at the end. Aston and Ferrari saved their tires at the beginning of the stint.
A lion must kill its prey.

jambuka
jambuka
28
Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 07:52

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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https://scuderiafans.com/ferraris-plann ... -miami-gp/
Looks like single pylon wing and updated diffuser for Miami. Hope it works.

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codetower
6
Joined: 15 Sep 2020, 16:47

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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As I understand, they will be running comparative tests on the two cars on Friday. One with a new diffuser possible new floor and the single wing, the other with the original setup. May just be rumors, but they are looking to compare the upgrades.

https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-sf-23- ... -diffuser/

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Juzh
161
Joined: 06 Oct 2012, 08:45

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
04 May 2023, 15:52
SoulPancake13 wrote:
04 May 2023, 15:22
Schippke wrote:
04 May 2023, 14:05
Despite all these revelations coming forward from/after Baku about Ferrari, I feel we should all be taking it with a bit of salt; Keep in mind that all the cars that weekend had (less than) 1 hour to dial themselves in before effectively being locked down for the rest of the weekend. So some might've been running in a better state than others. It very well could've been the case that Ferrari had dialled or sorted their setup better than Red Bull did... as what happened in Austria last year, albeit not to the same extent...

Yes, comments have been made about the pace of the Ferrari and Aston towards the end of the race being on a similar pace to the Red Bull... what makes others ignore that potentially Red Bull had just turned everything down and taken it easy? There wasn't even much point in getting fastest lap as Russell was on fresh tyres towards the end anyway.

Lets see how things go on a more traditional weekend Free Practice wise in Miami; Maybe the upgrades brought will bring Ferrari a bit further in front of Mercedes and Aston Martin... but I think you'll see a bigger gap in qualifying with Red Bull this weekend come end of qualifying. Happy to be proven wrong though!
A quick look at the onboards can show this is false. Max and Checo were pushing fully. I think this just confirms the idea that on low fuel, the car runs as is expected. I mean, Charles out of nowhere got a fastest lap of the race towards the end on old hards. Don't think this problem can be fixed now unfortunately, so much to all of the revolutionary suspension work the team did over the summer... must be fixed again for next year.
They could push fully but it doesn't mean they didn't turn down the deployment.

In any case, strategically speaking RB didn't run the race in a particularly clever way relative to the others even though they won. They won't be able to do that if the drivers are only trying to beat one another.

The fuel corrected laptime charts show that Red bull suffered from pretty high tire deg as a result of going flat out and this is partially why Aston and ferrari were able to match them at the end. Aston and Ferrari saved their tires at the beginning of the stint.
Looking at leclerc onboard after hes overtaken by both rbs dude is cruising to such an extent is looks like hes driving in slow motion. Zero corrections on steering wheel. I think they left time on the table there, and im 100% alonso left a bunch. He coule have pushed much much more.

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Vanja #66
1572
Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vasseur confirmed Ferrari aimed for 1-stopper, while they expected RB will go for 2-stop since they were pushing so much. RB likely redid their calculations and figured they would be wise to extend, especially since everyone reported better tyre life than expected.
AeroGimli.x

And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

jambuka
jambuka
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Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 07:52

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Upgraded floor, diffuser, single pylon wing all for Miami ? I doubt they will use everything. We will mostly see things on friday and then on sunday they will run with same Baku spec. :D

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codetower
6
Joined: 15 Sep 2020, 16:47

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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jambuka wrote:
04 May 2023, 20:52
Upgraded floor, diffuser, single pylon wing all for Miami ? I doubt they will use everything. We will mostly see things on friday and then on sunday they will run with same Baku spec. :D
I can see them testing these things to track their upgrade progress for the next races. But I agree they all likely won't get put in for the race.

Here's the single pylon wing on Fabrega's post:



[edited for spelling: pilon > pylon. It's Miami... I had Pilon coffee on the brain]

jambuka
jambuka
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Joined: 24 Feb 2023, 07:52

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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codetower wrote:
04 May 2023, 21:02
jambuka wrote:
04 May 2023, 20:52
Upgraded floor, diffuser, single pylon wing all for Miami ? I doubt they will use everything. We will mostly see things on friday and then on sunday they will run with same Baku spec. :D
I can see them testing these things to track their upgrade progress for the next races. But I agree they all likely won't get put in for the race.

Here's the single pylon wing on Fabrega's post:



[edited for spelling: pilon > pylon. It's Miami... I had Pilon coffee on the brain]

Which one do you think they will use in race ? I am guessing the wing and floor. But diffusser and floor may be needed together, so not sure.

FDD
FDD
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Joined: 29 Mar 2019, 01:08

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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Vanja #66 wrote:
03 May 2023, 21:36
Rivals feel Ferrari “not always pushing PU to maximum” amid possible reliability concerns

https://scuderiafans.com/rivals-feel-fe ... -concerns/

Baku Top Speeds seem to indeed prove this, especially compared to Jeddah results, where the car had a massively oversized rear wing this year.

https://i.ibb.co/7R5gtkV/2022-23-baku-q.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/VHyVGSn/2022-23-jeddah-q.jpg


With power available in Jeddah, Ferrari would have had at least 3-4kmh more in Baku Q and poof - no one would be talking about RB mighty DRS :lol:
Yea, I was thinking on the same "problem".
Nice analysis, Thank you

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search
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Joined: 19 Jul 2014, 21:20

Re: 2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

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last week Ferrari was pretty quick in practice (with the engines moderately turned up, I guess?), for basically the first time this year. Do you think this was because of the sprint weekend, and can we expect a bit of a change of approach?