2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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continuum16
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 14:46
A sign that the team could be favouring Hamilton? George is happy with the seating position, shouldn't it be down to Lewis to adapt?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... omplaints/
From what I’ve seen George doesn’t really seem too bothered about it either way, so if it’s neutral for George but Lewis has a preference it would seem logical to follow Lewis’ preference with this. It would be different if this was at the expense of George but it isn’t so I don’t think there’s any deliberate “favoritism” going on.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

harty71
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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continuum16 wrote:
05 May 2023, 17:55
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 14:46
A sign that the team could be favouring Hamilton? George is happy with the seating position, shouldn't it be down to Lewis to adapt?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... omplaints/
From what I’ve seen George doesn’t really seem too bothered about it either way, so if it’s neutral for George but Lewis has a preference it would seem logical to follow Lewis’ preference with this. It would be different if this was at the expense of George but it isn’t so I don’t think there’s any deliberate “favoritism” going on.
Seeing as though it's a big issue for Lewis but George is happy with it don't you think changing things to suit Lewis could potentially cause Russell to dislike the new direction, doesn't seem fair to me.

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chrisc90
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Where are things going to go if they move the seat backwards? I imagine the packaging is already fairly tight anyhow from the driver back over. Could they make the car longer?
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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continuum16 wrote:
05 May 2023, 17:55
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 14:46
A sign that the team could be favouring Hamilton? George is happy with the seating position, shouldn't it be down to Lewis to adapt?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... omplaints/
From what I’ve seen George doesn’t really seem too bothered about it either way, so if it’s neutral for George but Lewis has a preference it would seem logical to follow Lewis’ preference with this. It would be different if this was at the expense of George but it isn’t so I don’t think there’s any deliberate “favoritism” going on.
We don't have any way to know if George will be bothered by it, until it happens :lol: Anyway, that's between him and Mercedes to figure out. I have no opinion on where their cockpit should be.
A lion must kill its prey.

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continuum16
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 18:29
continuum16 wrote:
05 May 2023, 17:55
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 14:46
A sign that the team could be favouring Hamilton? George is happy with the seating position, shouldn't it be down to Lewis to adapt?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... omplaints/
From what I’ve seen George doesn’t really seem too bothered about it either way, so if it’s neutral for George but Lewis has a preference it would seem logical to follow Lewis’ preference with this. It would be different if this was at the expense of George but it isn’t so I don’t think there’s any deliberate “favoritism” going on.
Seeing as though it's a big issue for Lewis but George is happy with it don't you think changing things to suit Lewis could potentially cause Russell to dislike the new direction, doesn't seem fair to me.
There is certainly a potential that it could be seen that way. When this idea was first floated around it was said that both drivers had driven a modified version in the sim and it didn’t seem to make a difference to George. Of course this could be untrue, depending on the source of the article, etc.

So far the info we have (or I’ve seen at least) seems to indicate George doesn’t have a strong preference between keeping the current cockpit and shifting it rearward. If he does prefer the current layout and Mercedes changed it anyways then it would be more unfair for sure, but nothing seems to indicate that’s the case.

It’s like if two people want to go out to a restaurant, and person A doesn’t care where they go or what cuisine there is while person B is a particularly picky eater, it would make sense to go where person B wants to go because it’s more important to them, and person A doesn’t care regardless.
"You can't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience"
- Mark Twain

mendis
mendis
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
05 May 2023, 18:51
continuum16 wrote:
05 May 2023, 17:55
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 14:46
A sign that the team could be favouring Hamilton? George is happy with the seating position, shouldn't it be down to Lewis to adapt?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... omplaints/
From what I’ve seen George doesn’t really seem too bothered about it either way, so if it’s neutral for George but Lewis has a preference it would seem logical to follow Lewis’ preference with this. It would be different if this was at the expense of George but it isn’t so I don’t think there’s any deliberate “favoritism” going on.
We don't have any way to know if George will be bothered by it, until it happens :lol: Anyway, that's between him and Mercedes to figure out. I have no opinion on where their cockpit should be.
Engineers should do whatever it takes to make the car go faster and if they see benefit in the current design and if that's optimal direction to move forward, they should simply do, rather than trying to change it for one driver and then see if they can find different ways to gain the performance. It's a waste of time and money in a cost cap era. Drivers should adapt and get the best performance out of the equipment. I won't be surprised if they screw George over Lewis' preference and then the change in design pushes them a step back. The upside would be to listen the eloquent way in which George would justify it. :lol:

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pursue_one's
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Joined: 28 Mar 2021, 04:50

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
05 May 2023, 18:43
Where are things going to go if they move the seat backwards? I imagine the packaging is already fairly tight anyhow from the driver back over. Could they make the car longer?

1. Moving the front wheels forward
2. Moving the cockpit backward.

Image

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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pursue_one's wrote:
05 May 2023, 19:22
chrisc90 wrote:
05 May 2023, 18:43
Where are things going to go if they move the seat backwards? I imagine the packaging is already fairly tight anyhow from the driver back over. Could they make the car longer?

1. Moving the front wheels forward
2. Moving the cockpit backward.

https://i.imgur.com/OlGA5Rn.jpeg
There is a maximum wheel base, which Merc are already at iirc.
A lion must kill its prey.

Venturiation
Venturiation
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 18:29
continuum16 wrote:
05 May 2023, 17:55
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 14:46
A sign that the team could be favouring Hamilton? George is happy with the seating position, shouldn't it be down to Lewis to adapt?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wolf ... omplaints/
From what I’ve seen George doesn’t really seem too bothered about it either way, so if it’s neutral for George but Lewis has a preference it would seem logical to follow Lewis’ preference with this. It would be different if this was at the expense of George but it isn’t so I don’t think there’s any deliberate “favoritism” going on.
Seeing as though it's a big issue for Lewis but George is happy with it don't you think changing things to suit Lewis could potentially cause Russell to dislike the new direction, doesn't seem fair to me.
I don’t see an issue with building the car around a 7x WDC. Call me crazy.

I do know George and some on the team wanted to continue with the current concept after Brazil last year. That’s the route they took. Now, it turned out that wasn’t such a wise decision.
Last edited by zibby43 on 05 May 2023, 22:18, edited 1 time in total.

harty71
harty71
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Joined: 14 Nov 2022, 10:03

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
05 May 2023, 22:16
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 18:29
continuum16 wrote:
05 May 2023, 17:55

From what I’ve seen George doesn’t really seem too bothered about it either way, so if it’s neutral for George but Lewis has a preference it would seem logical to follow Lewis’ preference with this. It would be different if this was at the expense of George but it isn’t so I don’t think there’s any deliberate “favoritism” going on.
Seeing as though it's a big issue for Lewis but George is happy with it don't you think changing things to suit Lewis could potentially cause Russell to dislike the new direction, doesn't seem fair to me.
I don’t see an issue with building the car around a 7x WDC. Call me crazy.
Even if it might not be the fastest route and may upset the other driver who feels comfortable that way?

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 22:17
zibby43 wrote:
05 May 2023, 22:16
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 18:29


Seeing as though it's a big issue for Lewis but George is happy with it don't you think changing things to suit Lewis could potentially cause Russell to dislike the new direction, doesn't seem fair to me.
I don’t see an issue with building the car around a 7x WDC. Call me crazy.
Even if it might not be the fastest route and may upset the other driver who feels comfortable that way?
See my edited post above. Change may do them some good considering the car cannot compete for championships and is falling further from the very front with the existing concept.

Also, why are you concerned that a certain choice “may” upset George, but have zero concern that a current choice “is” upsetting Hamilton? What am I missing here?

harty71
harty71
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
05 May 2023, 22:21
harty71 wrote:
05 May 2023, 22:17
zibby43 wrote:
05 May 2023, 22:16


I don’t see an issue with building the car around a 7x WDC. Call me crazy.
Even if it might not be the fastest route and may upset the other driver who feels comfortable that way?
See my edited post above. Change may do them some good considering the car cannot compete for championships and is falling further from the very front with the existing concept.

Also, why are you concerned that a certain choice “may” upset George, but have zero concern that a current choice “is” upsetting Hamilton? What am I missing here?
Because, this route is what they think is fastest, hence them going in that direction?

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chrisc90
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Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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It does seem a odd choice to take really. Surely there is more lap time in changing other areas than the driving position to gain lap time. Seems like a un-necessary expense to me. Russel is happy where its at and reports no problems - the laptime still isnt there in the car. Hamilton hates it because he cant feel the rear - Merc choose a whole new chassis that suits him. Is moving the driver back going to find the 1/2 second deficit to Ferrari or Red Bull? Very very unlikely. I wonder how much designing a new tub, getting it approved is going to cost (bearing in mind the FIA need a few to crash test to ensure they meet the standards required so at a big loss there straight away - especially for in season development where some teams say budget is extremely tight.)

Its been nearly 1.5- 2 years of car where the driver has been positioned there. Surely a driver would have learned to adapt to the new 'feel' of the car.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

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dans79
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Location: USA

Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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chrisc90 wrote:
05 May 2023, 22:42
Is moving the driver back going to find the 1/2 second deficit to Ferrari or Red Bull? Very very unlikely. I wonder how much designing a new tub, getting it approved is going to cost (bearing in mind the FIA need a few to crash test to ensure they meet the standards required so at a big loss there straight away - especially for in season development where some teams say budget is extremely tight.)
They are as far forward as they are, because of how they decided to package the car.

They aren't getting a new tub/chassis till next season, it's to $$$ to do so this year unless they want zero development the rest of the season.

Keep in mind you need at least 4, one for the FIA to destroy during testing, one for each driver, and a spare!
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