2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Ground Effect]

I disagree. McLaren were the 5th fastest team in Baku, a track which is even more dependent on straight line performance. Miami's sector 1 has a heavy reliance on medium and high speed cornering which the new floor was geared towards (according to the team). Will McLaren be relatively slow on the straights? Probably but they should also have decent cornering performance to compensate for the best overall laptime. It's daft to think that one upgrade was going to cure all of the cars problems and the team have said as much.

How many overtakes are made in the corners though? I simply exposed what is my concern. You took it much too serious and by far the wrong way.

For me the article is suggesting that the downforce is there even from the floor, but that they are choosing to run with a big rear wing still. This is what frustrated me about Baku. The data from the track showed the team to be fantastic through the twists and turns of Baku, faster than Merc and AM. But we still chose to run a high DF setup.

It frustrated me a lot as I think we had enough in the twisty sections to sacrifice some of the downforce to get straight line speed and maintain a strong laptime but to give us a better chance on the straights.

The only thing I can think is not that the team wouldnt want to run a low DF wing, just that they don't want to waste resources building one when they have major updates to build.

The thing is, the team know more and know better than anyone on here. It may not be as straightforward as we think. I don't know why anyone would be frustrated at the way the team sets up the car they built and have tons of data for. I hear Lando complain about top speed, being poor on the straights, but I've never heard him suggest that they should run less rear wing. That's probably because it's not as simple as that.

[mwillems]

How many overtakes are made in the corners though? I simply exposed what is my concern. You took it much too serious and by far the wrong way.

For me the article is suggesting that the downforce is there even from the floor, but that they are choosing to run with a big rear wing still. This is what frustrated me about Baku. The data from the track showed the team to be fantastic through the twists and turns of Baku, faster than Merc and AM. But we still chose to run a high DF setup.

It frustrated me a lot as I think we had enough in the twisty sections to sacrifice some of the downforce to get straight line speed and maintain a strong laptime but to give us a better chance on the straights.

The only thing I can think is not that the team wouldnt want to run a low DF wing, just that they don't want to waste resources building one when they have major updates to build.

The thing is, the team know more and know better than anyone on here. It may not be as straightforward as we think. I don't know why anyone would be frustrated at the way the team sets up the car they built and have tons of data for. I hear Lando complain about top speed, being poor on the straights, but I've never heard him suggest that they should run less rear wing. That's probably because it's not as simple as that.

Well if you take that approach no one should ever have an opinion on the team or how they run, but that's ridiculous, you and I both will have opinions on the team and the way they run and this is just the same as any of them. There is enough data to support the view that they have a lot of downforce in this configuration and that someone can have the opinion it is too much.

[Macklaren]

P12 and P16 in FP1 but with early runs and track evolution was huge, so not a bad result at all

[LionsHeart]

McLaren uses exactly the same aero package as in Baku. I assumed that the beam wing would be the same as in the first races, but I was wrong. In the first training session, Lando and Oscar did not attack much. Let's look at the pace in the next sessions.

[Ground Effect]

For me the article is suggesting that the downforce is there even from the floor, but that they are choosing to run with a big rear wing still. This is what frustrated me about Baku. The data from the track showed the team to be fantastic through the twists and turns of Baku, faster than Merc and AM. But we still chose to run a high DF setup.

It frustrated me a lot as I think we had enough in the twisty sections to sacrifice some of the downforce to get straight line speed and maintain a strong laptime but to give us a better chance on the straights.

The only thing I can think is not that the team wouldnt want to run a low DF wing, just that they don't want to waste resources building one when they have major updates to build.

The thing is, the team know more and know better than anyone on here. It may not be as straightforward as we think. I don't know why anyone would be frustrated at the way the team sets up the car they built and have tons of data for. I hear Lando complain about top speed, being poor on the straights, but I've never heard him suggest that they should run less rear wing. That's probably because it's not as simple as that.

Well if you take that approach no one should ever have an opinion on the team or how they run, but that's ridiculous, you and I both will have opinions on the team and the way they run and this is just the same as any of them. There is enough data to support the view that they have a lot of downforce in this configuration and that someone can have the opinion it is too much.

Norris says the MCL60 lacks pace in the corners too, making it even more difficult for them to catch up to cars that have pulled away on the straights.

He explained: "It's not like we have a lot more downforce in the corners to catch up and then [we're] slow on the straight; we're just the same in the corners and [then] slow on the straights."

I guess this explains it?

[mwillems]

The thing is, the team know more and know better than anyone on here. It may not be as straightforward as we think. I don't know why anyone would be frustrated at the way the team sets up the car they built and have tons of data for. I hear Lando complain about top speed, being poor on the straights, but I've never heard him suggest that they should run less rear wing. That's probably because it's not as simple as that.

Well if you take that approach no one should ever have an opinion on the team or how they run, but that's ridiculous, you and I both will have opinions on the team and the way they run and this is just the same as any of them. There is enough data to support the view that they have a lot of downforce in this configuration and that someone can have the opinion it is too much.

Norris says the MCL60 lacks pace in the corners too, making it even more difficult for them to catch up to cars that have pulled away on the straights.

He explained: "It's not like we have a lot more downforce in the corners to catch up and then [we're] slow on the straight; we're just the same in the corners and [then] slow on the straights."

I guess this explains it?

On one hand he says the team should have finished P4 in Q3 at Baku, on the other he thinks the car is slow everywhere.

They are far from slow in the corners.

[mwillems]

The gap to Ham chart shows just how much faster we were in corners. Much faster than Ham and Alo in the Q3 fast lap.

We are NOT slow in corners.

[Ground Effect]

The gap to Ham chart shows just how much faster we were in corners. Much faster than Ham and Alo in the Q3 fast lap.

We are NOT slow in corners.

He didn't say they were slow though. Reading what he says, they aren't better than their rivals in corners, they don't have massive amounts of downforce they can trade off, if they went for a lower downforce rear wing, they'd look a lot less impressive in the corners. I think what Lando says would carry more weight.

[mwillems]

I disagree with you and it won't change simply because you don't like it. I posted enough to support my opinion. The telemetry shows us clearly faster in the corners than our rivals.

In my opinion most drivers demand more from the car, its not any kind of surprise to hear Lando say that. He's spent the season being a hard taskmaster with regards to the car.

You've spent the past few pages trying to explain that my opinion is invalid. It isn't, not because of a quote from a driver for sure, not in the face of actual data.

You'll also see many commentators discussing the same. Go argue with them too.

[AR3-GP]

I disagree with you and it won't change simply because you don't like it. I posted enough to support my opinion. The telemetry shows us clearly faster in the corners than our rivals.

How much of this is pure performance, and how much is coming from the fact that other teams chose to be slower in the corners in order to be faster down the straights?

Would it be possible that other teams were even faster in the corners, if they had as big of a rear wing as Mclaren?

[mwillems]

I disagree with you and it won't change simply because you don't like it. I posted enough to support my opinion. The telemetry shows us clearly faster in the corners than our rivals.

How much of this is pure performance, and how much is coming from the fact that other teams chose to be slower in the corners in order to be faster down the straights?

Would it be possible that other teams were even faster in the corners, if they had as big of a rear wing as Mclaren?

Of course this is all possible but simple because there are possibilities it doesn't disprove something.

Isn't it possible that they could have a bigger wing but still be slower through the corners than us? Yes, also possible.

Im not pushing my opinion as facts, im stating i have an opinion. The only actual problem is that I respect the opinion that maybe we are running the right setup, but some people on here have to find was to refute an opinion that doesn't agree with theirs.

Christ knows why having an opinion someone doesn't agree with means I am missing something or not looking at possibilities.... its almost like OTHER posters believe they are the true and only holders of the real facts.

[AR3-GP]

I disagree with you and it won't change simply because you don't like it. I posted enough to support my opinion. The telemetry shows us clearly faster in the corners than our rivals.

How much of this is pure performance, and how much is coming from the fact that other teams chose to be slower in the corners in order to be faster down the straights?

Would it be possible that other teams were even faster in the corners, if they had as big of a rear wing as Mclaren?

Of course this is all possible but simple because there are possibilities it doesn't disprove something.

Isn't it possible that they could have a bigger wing but still be slower through the corners than us? Yes, also possible.

Im not pushing my opinion as facts, im stating i have an opinion. The only actual problem is that I respect the opinion that maybe we are running the right setup, but some people on here have to find was to refute an opinion that doesn't agree with theirs.

Christ knows why having an opinion someone doesn't agree with means I am missing something or not looking at possibilities.... its almost like OTHER posters believe they are the true and only holders of the real facts.

What I think is 1 of 2 things

a) Mclaren selected the configuration that made their car the fastest in Baku. So maybe low downforce wing doesn't make them faster.

b) Mclaren did not have a low downforce configuration available yet.

In any case, I don't like to hyper analyze cornering performance. The only thing we have to go off of is the total lap performance, and teams are responsible for completing the entire lap. When the laps were completed, the Mclaren was not ahead of Mercedes or Aston Martin. It doesn't make sense to hyper analyze cornering performance. It's like missing the big picture.

[kfrantzios]

I disagree with you and it won't change simply because you don't like it. I posted enough to support my opinion. The telemetry shows us clearly faster in the corners than our rivals.

How much of this is pure performance, and how much is coming from the fact that other teams chose to be slower in the corners in order to be faster down the straights?

Would it be possible that other teams were even faster in the corners, if they had as big of a rear wing as Mclaren?

Of course this is all possible but simple because there are possibilities it doesn't disprove something.

Isn't it possible that they could have a bigger wing but still be slower through the corners than us? Yes, also possible.

Im not pushing my opinion as facts, im stating i have an opinion. The only actual problem is that I respect the opinion that maybe we are running the right setup, but some people on here have to find was to refute an opinion that doesn't agree with theirs.

Christ knows why having an opinion someone doesn't agree with means I am missing something or not looking at possibilities.... its almost like OTHER posters believe they are the true and only holders of the real facts.

There is actually only one fact. This was the fastest setup the team could dial into the car with the data they had at the moment.

[mwillems]

How much of this is pure performance, and how much is coming from the fact that other teams chose to be slower in the corners in order to be faster down the straights?

Would it be possible that other teams were even faster in the corners, if they had as big of a rear wing as Mclaren?

Of course this is all possible but simple because there are possibilities it doesn't disprove something.

Isn't it possible that they could have a bigger wing but still be slower through the corners than us? Yes, also possible.

Im not pushing my opinion as facts, im stating i have an opinion. The only actual problem is that I respect the opinion that maybe we are running the right setup, but some people on here have to find was to refute an opinion that doesn't agree with theirs.

Christ knows why having an opinion someone doesn't agree with means I am missing something or not looking at possibilities.... its almost like OTHER posters believe they are the true and only holders of the real facts.

There is actually only one fact. This was the fastest setup the team could dial into the car with the data they had at the moment.

That is actualy an opinion.

The fact.. is that you don't recognise it, and it's the only reason half the stupid conversations on here happen. Because certain individuals can't agree to disagree because they think that they themselves can't be wrong.

[wogx]