2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[harty71]

+1

Like birds of a feather.

Face it, Hamilton didn't get started until 40 laps in, had he cleared the cars earlier be could have challenged Sainz.

It isn't as easy to clear the cars in this Mercedes with a limited top speed in straight line.

That's why you have to be more committed on the brakes, Hamilton was very tentative whilst Russell was sending it.

[JordanMugen]

I dont think the upgrade is going to do much. The base car itself is the problem. They're essentially trying to polish a turd and that in F1 is impossible.

I take it Mercedes are going to change the cockpit position and remove the scallops for the radiators from the tub and/or SIPS placement for the 2024 season then, if they feel that will be better? Could other aspects of the 2024 car still be brought to test on the 2023 car, despite its different chassis layout?

Russell was saying that the Imola package is meant to (or he hopes it will) improve the consistency of the car to make it more predictable (so both tyre usage and aerodynamics in wind/yaw?).

[AMG.Tzan]

I too ain’t expecting much from that Imola upgrade!

They were hyping it so much after Bahrain saying how they’re going to change philosophy, they even said at some point that their true 2023 car will come at Imola but since then they have been playing it down more and more! Phrases like “we have found more performance in two weeks than in the whole winter” have now disappeared from their vocabulary…

Anyway, at least they’re maximizing their points at every race! Aston Martin should have been more points ahead but Lance is making sure that that won’t happen! I still can’t believe how after 2022 they still managed to bottle another car…

[chrisc90]

Hamilton's tyre deg to Verstappen was actually pretty consistant to be honest. So the deg of the Merc cant have been that bad.

[zibby43]

I dont think the upgrade is going to do much. The base car itself is the problem. They're essentially trying to polish a turd and that in F1 is impossible.

I take it Mercedes are going to change the cockpit position and remove the scallops for the radiators from the tub and/or SIPS placement for the 2024 season then, if they feel that will be better? Could other aspects of the 2024 car still be brought to test on the 2023 car, despite its different chassis layout?

Russell was saying that the Imola package is meant to (or he hopes it will) improve the consistency of the car to make it more predictable (so both tyre usage and aerodynamics in wind/yaw?).

I wholeheartedly agree re: the vision going forward. 2024 will see a chassis change. Anything implemented in 2023 will be halfway house solutions meant to gather as much data as possible.

[harty71]

Things were terrible last season but the team had several races where they were in with a shot of a victory, this year they haven't got a prayer of a win.

[chrisc90]

I dont think the upgrade is going to do much. The base car itself is the problem. They're essentially trying to polish a turd and that in F1 is impossible.

I take it Mercedes are going to change the cockpit position and remove the scallops for the radiators from the tub and/or SIPS placement for the 2024 season then, if they feel that will be better? Could other aspects of the 2024 car still be brought to test on the 2023 car, despite its different chassis layout?

Russell was saying that the Imola package is meant to (or he hopes it will) improve the consistency of the car to make it more predictable (so both tyre usage and aerodynamics in wind/yaw?).

I wholeheartedly agree re: the vision going forward. 2024 will see a chassis change. Anything implemented in 2023 will be halfway house solutions meant to gather as much data as possible.

I really dont think the chassis is the problem, especially the recently reported driver position.

I think the key is the undercut on the sidepods feeding air to the diffuser, thats where the key performance is from I think.

[harty71]

Is it just my eyes but their car looks super stiff compared to everyone else on the grid, it looks hideous through the tight & twisty corners.

[zibby43]

I take it Mercedes are going to change the cockpit position and remove the scallops for the radiators from the tub and/or SIPS placement for the 2024 season then, if they feel that will be better? Could other aspects of the 2024 car still be brought to test on the 2023 car, despite its different chassis layout?

Russell was saying that the Imola package is meant to (or he hopes it will) improve the consistency of the car to make it more predictable (so both tyre usage and aerodynamics in wind/yaw?).

I wholeheartedly agree re: the vision going forward. 2024 will see a chassis change. Anything implemented in 2023 will be halfway house solutions meant to gather as much data as possible.

I really dont think the chassis is the problem, especially the recently reported driver position.

I think the key is the undercut on the sidepods feeding air to the diffuser, thats where the key performance is from I think.

That’s part of the chassis and how they’ve positioned the radiators.

It’s never really just one thing, either. It’s not being able to do the water slide/undercut pods with this chassis. It’s probably front suspension. It’s probably aero platform stability (cockpit position plays a role here). They’re all connected. That’s why it’s hard to build a car.

[Big Tea]

Is it just my eyes but their car looks super stiff compared to everyone else on the grid, it looks hideous through the tight & twisty corners.

I agree with you, I too see the problem in suspension rather than 'bodywork'.
Not only the way the car acts on the track, but also the way it presents surfaces to the airstream

[harty71]

Is it just my eyes but their car looks super stiff compared to everyone else on the grid, it looks hideous through the tight & twisty corners.

I agree with you, I too see the problem in suspension rather than 'bodywork'.
Not only the way the car acts on the track, but also the way it presents surfaces to the airstream

It just looks off to me, hopefully this new suspension makes it look more like a car instead of a rigid boat.

[dans79]

I agree with you, I too see the problem in suspension rather than 'bodywork'.

IMO, it's a big part of it, all you need to do was watch it through 14 & 15 today. It acted more like a childs Tonka truck (no suspension), than it did a race car.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's too easy to find suspension problems. You compare suspension movements that you are getting with the desired movements, to get a certain aerodynamic behaviour, and you correct from there. Quite logical flow to identify a suspension issue.

With statements from Wolff like "we don't know what is wrong and the car is not good in all areas"... Then for sure it's not a suspensionsion issue. It's now about aerdynamics and tyres two of the boadest areas for problem solving.

[zibby43]

It's too easy to find suspension problems. You compare suspension movements that you are getting with the desired movements, to get a certain aerodynamic behaviour, and you correct from there. Quite logical flow to identify a suspension issue.

With statements from Wolff like "we don't know what is wrong and the car is not good in all areas"... Then for sure it's not a suspensionsion issue. It's now about aerdynamics and tyres two of the boadest areas for problem solving.

And I think this is part of why Allison has decided to introduce the new front suspension only in Imola, before then bringing the side pods/other bodywork afterward.

[JordanMugen]

It's too easy to find suspension problems. You compare suspension movements that you are getting with the desired movements, to get a certain aerodynamic behaviour, and you correct from there. Quite logical flow to identify a suspension issue.

With statements from Wolff like "we don't know what is wrong and the car is not good in all areas"... Then for sure it's not a suspensionsion issue. It's now about aerdynamics and tyres two of the boadest areas for problem solving.

Tyre usage is part of the suspension...

I think Mercedes still have problems getting the tyres in the correct operating temperature with consistency, hence why the balance swings from being good to not good unpredictably depending on track conditions...?

That's a suspension rather than aerodynamic issue, no?