2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Jdn1327]

I dont think the upgrade is going to do much. The base car itself is the problem. They're essentially trying to polish a turd and that in F1 is impossible.

I take it Mercedes are going to change the cockpit position and remove the scallops for the radiators from the tub and/or SIPS placement for the 2024 season then, if they feel that will be better? Could other aspects of the 2024 car still be brought to test on the 2023 car, despite its different chassis layout?

Russell was saying that the Imola package is meant to (or he hopes it will) improve the consistency of the car to make it more predictable (so both tyre usage and aerodynamics in wind/yaw?).

The 2024 car should be a blank canvas from the start. Nothing from the 2022 pr 2023 car should be kept. The DNA of this current car is corrupt. They tried to package it so tightly that they had so little room to maneuver a proper rear suspension. I mean the suspension of the Mercedes has always been a problem...from 2014. It's an area they should have focused on but neglected it for a zero pod dud.

[harty71]

I'm not sure about these upgrades, maybe they will be akin to sticking a plaster over an ulcer.

If they do see improvement they may foolishly think that the concept still as potential, I'd much rather them sack this season off and start from scratch, they still have a competitive car as it is

[chrisc90]

What is expected to land at Imola in 2 weeks time? Heard a few different stories now and losing track of what was promised 6 weeks ago, to whats likely coming to fruition soon.

Last I read was that it was front suspension only at imola. Then sidepods etc to come later down the line.

[mendis]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the concept. It's a fast car. Maybe it's on equal terms with RB19. They just need to understand it better and drivers should adapt and get best out of it. Every car in the grid has similar issues and everyone is trying.

[Jdn1327]

What is expected to land at Imola in 2 weeks time? Heard a few different stories now and losing track of what was promised 6 weeks ago, to whats likely coming to fruition soon.

Last I read was that it was front suspension only at imola. Then sidepods etc to come later down the line.

From what I've read. For imola it's front suspension, a rear suspension 'tweak' whatever that is. A new beam wing and new floor with a upgraded diffuser. Whether or not they actually change the side pods is yet to be confirmed. Expect nothing to happen to the side pods honestly.

[Jdn1327]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/merce ... /10466868/

This is what they hope to sort out

[JordanMugen]

Expect nothing to happen to the side pods honestly.

Toto Wolff:

It's a lack of comprehension of what it is that makes this car such a nasty piece of work

I think what we're trying to do with the upgrade is to create a new baseline and for us to take question marks out of the equation and say, this is not the problem now that we have gone to a different concept.

This is what is happening with the front suspension and we are looking at bodywork solutions that are more conventional than ours, and that are going to create a different airflow.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff ... /10466352/

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Whether conventional wide sidepods would help the Mercedes with consistent aerodynamic performance in yaw is hard to say. Wolff hints that they want to eliminate that as a potential problem, but he could be mistaken or bluffing.

[chrisc90]

I see no real reason they/He would acheive from bluffing. Its the only car on the grid with that sidepod concept, and its extremely unlikely that anyone else is going to swap to that concept. Either they have found something completely different to 9 other teams, which is also unlikely, or he is just doing that....bluffing. Would seem very odd to do such a thing though.

[ValeVida46]

It really doesn't only have to be 2 choices of bluffing or silver bullet.
Why can't it just be as he said, they're learning about the car and want a solid baseline to have a reliable process of problem elimination. Nothing odd at all.

[Hammerfist]

Expect nothing to happen to the side pods honestly.

Toto Wolff:

It's a lack of comprehension of what it is that makes this car such a nasty piece of work

I think what we're trying to do with the upgrade is to create a new baseline and for us to take question marks out of the equation and say, this is not the problem now that we have gone to a different concept.

This is what is happening with the front suspension and we are looking at bodywork solutions that are more conventional than ours, and that are going to create a different airflow.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff ... /10466352/

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Whether conventional wide sidepods would help the Mercedes with consistent aerodynamic performance in yaw is hard to say. Wolff hints that they want to eliminate that as a potential problem, but he could be mistaken or bluffing.

I dont think hes bluffing. Eliminating the zero pod design being a reason the car is problematic needs to be tested out in the real world. I always wondered if it was possible to bring the original w13 with sidepods on a race weekend to compare to the zero pod. Obviously that never happened but i like that they want to test it out now. Finally.

[AR3-GP]

You can actually see how Mercedes would construct a conventional sidepod.

The mid wing forms the upper surface of a high sidepod inlet (like Ferrari, RB, and AMR)

[Big Tea]

Expect nothing to happen to the side pods honestly.

Toto Wolff:

It's a lack of comprehension of what it is that makes this car such a nasty piece of work

I think what we're trying to do with the upgrade is to create a new baseline and for us to take question marks out of the equation and say, this is not the problem now that we have gone to a different concept.

This is what is happening with the front suspension and we are looking at bodywork solutions that are more conventional than ours, and that are going to create a different airflow.

https://au.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff ... /10466352/

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Whether conventional wide sidepods would help the Mercedes with consistent aerodynamic performance in yaw is hard to say. Wolff hints that they want to eliminate that as a potential problem, but he could be mistaken or bluffing.

I dont think hes bluffing. Eliminating the zero pod design being a reason the car is problematic needs to be tested out in the real world. I always wondered if it was possible to bring the original w13 with sidepods on a race weekend to compare to the zero pod. Obviously that never happened but i like that they want to test it out now. Finally.

If their instruments and procedures tell them that the zeropod is the way to make the fastest car, and they make the replacement car with the same kit, how is that going to be?

They have mismeasured, miscalculated or misunderstood something fundamental. Its like having a saw that wont cut straight, the new one will not either unless you use it differently.

[JordanMugen]

If their instruments and procedures tell them that the zeropod is the way to make the fastest car, and they make the replacement car with the same kit, how is that going to be?

I assume the idea is that the wide sidepod/waterslide design is less sensitive to yaw, as the sidepod bodywork itself acts to align the airflow to the rear of the car?

[Big Tea]

If their instruments and procedures tell them that the zeropod is the way to make the fastest car, and they make the replacement car with the same kit, how is that going to be?

I assume the idea is that the wide sidepod/waterslide design is less sensitive to yaw, as the sidepod bodywork itself acts to align the airflow to the rear of the car?

If the feedback on the testing says it good to go, it would be the same as this years car was. If the car acted as the model did it would be right up there, but is not and they do not (seem to) know why.
The new car would in reality be a guess, which could be really good or just as bad as this years car.

They are smart people and cant seem to figure it out, which is strange to say the least.
I think they at least need to take last years car and spend a week on a track running around comparing the model with actuality before they actually produce anything.
(They are they allowed to use last years car arn't they? Drivers test in year old cars, so I assume it is OK)

[AR3-GP]

The upgrade could just as easily go like Mclaren's upgrade...

Like Mclaren, Mercedes also have to do a bit to restore faith in their PR. If Imola doesn't work, they will be crucified by the people they write letters to...