Is the RB19 Dominant?

[LM10]

I've changed my mind. I think RB are capable of sandbagging and probably are. Through PU performance reduction, and by not running the car as low as possible. They don't need to stress the car that much. It's the logical thing to do in their position. It satisfies political and reliability requirements.

It's the chasing teams who have to run at the limit to get close.

We've seen the potential of the car in the race already as both drivers pushed each other. So no sandbagging there.

As for qualifying, well yeah, could be possible of course - though, it does not really matter as we already know the potential from looking at the race pace and it's easy for the teams to extrapolate from there.

We can't say for sure, but from all the data we have (lap time analysis and comparisons) I think there is more proof that they're not sandbagging in qualifying than the other way around.

[AR3-GP]

I've changed my mind. I think RB are capable of sandbagging and probably are. Through PU performance reduction, and by not running the car as low as possible. They don't need to stress the car that much. It's the logical thing to do in their position. It satisfies political and reliability requirements.

It's the chasing teams who have to run at the limit to get close.

We've seen the potential of the car in the race already as both drivers pushed each other. So no sandbagging there.

As for qualifying, well yeah, could be possible of course - though, it does not really matter as we already know the potential from looking at the race pace and it's easy for the teams to extrapolate from there.

We can't say for sure, but from all the data we have (lap time analysis and comparisons) I think there is more proof that they're not sandbagging in qualifying than the other way around.

If you read my post, you would understand that the kinds of decisions that they can make, would provide a net reduction in performance in both qualifying and the race. The driver can drive to 100% of what he has been given. But if what he has been given is only 98% of the weapon, then you will only observe that 98%.

With the margin RB have, they do not have to run their engine at 100% (like Mercedes did in the second half of 2021). They do not have to run their cooling openings on the limit for drag reduction. They do not need to run super low and risk running afoul of the plank wear regulations as well as vibrations traveling to the mechanical parts.

There's so many areas where they can just "relax". Whereas chasing teams have to run closer and closer to the limit in an attempt just to take a 2nd place. You only have to look at Leclerc's mess of a weekend in Miami where he gambled with very edgy setups in order to be quick. RB are not using "edgy" setups to be quick. They can run a comfortable car for the driver that might not have the ultimate pace as a result, but just makes it more comfortable for the driver. That's the margin they have.

They are dominant, and perhaps even more than what is visible at this time.

[Aesop]

Nah, they need to maximize now with the windtunnel restrictions in mind. Now doubt the car is dominant, but sandbagging? Can't see any evidence and would not be logic.

[AR3-GP]

Nah, they need to maximize now with the windtunnel restrictions in mind.

RB's margin is big. It's not close. RB had to turn down the engines in Bahrain because of gearbox problems and they still won at a canter.

This is no different to the way other teams approach the season.

The earlier you upgrade, the longer you benefit.

[PlatinumZealot]

I've changed my mind. I think RB are capable of sandbagging and probably are. Through PU performance reduction, and by not running the car as low as possible. They don't need to stress the car that much. It's the logical thing to do in their position. It satisfies political and reliability requirements.

It's the chasing teams who have to run at the limit to get close.

We've seen the potential of the car in the race already as both drivers pushed each other. So no sandbagging there.

As for qualifying, well yeah, could be possible of course - though, it does not really matter as we already know the potential from looking at the race pace and it's easy for the teams to extrapolate from there.

We can't say for sure, but from all the data we have (lap time analysis and comparisons) I think there is more proof that they're not sandbagging in qualifying than the other way around.

The question is out there whether RedBull are even turning up 100% of the their true pace in a way to avoid unwanted attention from the FIA.

[mendis]

I've changed my mind. I think RB are capable of sandbagging and probably are. Through PU performance reduction, and by not running the car as low as possible. They don't need to stress the car that much. It's the logical thing to do in their position. It satisfies political and reliability requirements.

It's the chasing teams who have to run at the limit to get close.

We've seen the potential of the car in the race already as both drivers pushed each other. So no sandbagging there.

As for qualifying, well yeah, could be possible of course - though, it does not really matter as we already know the potential from looking at the race pace and it's easy for the teams to extrapolate from there.

We can't say for sure, but from all the data we have (lap time analysis and comparisons) I think there is more proof that they're not sandbagging in qualifying than the other way around.

The question is out there whether RedBull are even turning up 100% of the their true pace in a way to avoid unwanted attention from the FIA.

I hope they are not!

[Sieper]

They can easily do 370. I mean, even Williams could. But best hide this.

[Juzh]

They can easily do 370. I mean, even Williams could. But best hide this.

Days of pushing 370 are long gone. Williams did this in a different era of much lower drag and much less restrictions on engines (quali modes, oil burning ....). 370 is completely unfeasible nowadays.

[Just_a_fan]

They can easily do 370. I mean, even Williams could. But best hide this.

Wasn't that in 2016 at Monza? The Williams was still 0.8s off pole time and finished the race 50+s behind P1. That's because the Williams lacked downforce which meant it wasn't as draggy as the better cars around it. And the PUs were run differently then, too, as Juzh states.

[Farnborough]

Nah, they need to maximize now with the windtunnel restrictions in mind.

RB's margin is big. It's not close. RB had to turn down the engines in Bahrain because of gearbox problems and they still won at a canter.

This is no different to the way other teams approach the season.

The earlier you upgrade, the longer you benefit.

I can definitely see that's true in statement about upgrade effects.

However, I'd look at it the from the opposite direction, and particularly in RB current design, that the better the original concept performed then the more advantage it can take from these cost cap regulations. They effectively restricted upgrade path if you look at them from that angle. Subtle difference, but nevertheless effective.

General chatter is excited about upgrade, in reality that word holds so much store in so many walks of life now that it detracts from a good start point in many cases. In this technical arena it could be interchangeable with "lacking" in original provision for many examples.

The effectiveness of all working on a very good base can be seen in the AM car as all thinking is now built from that platform and not just trying to catch up, tread water, to stay in same championship place.

The popular anecdotal comment about excessive spend being the total upgrade budget of AR (attributed to FV I believe) and used in illustration as to just how much that's worth I believe is also looked at from the wrong aspect too.
It could be asked just what effect that had with AR team in driver position or team championship points ? All of their fantastic facilities and no really effective outcome in pure position terms.

Its the ideas that are put into the tunnel etc and not ultimately the spend. Put a shopping trolley in, you'll just likely get a faster shopping trolley as a result.

The good ideas cost exactly the same as the bad, mediocre or indifferent ones.

Looks like the other teams have all resorted to guessing now showing they don't even understand their own concept. That's not commensurate with theur undoubted knowledge and skill.

[Sieper]

They can easily do 370. I mean, even Williams could. But best hide this.

Wasn't that in 2016 at Monza? The Williams was still 0.8s off pole time and finished the race 50+s behind P1. That's because the Williams lacked downforce which meant it wasn't as draggy as the better cars around it. And the PUs were run differently then, too, as Juzh states.

They ran wings halve as wide and tires about the same difference. Ofc they can’t reach those kind of speeds. Imho the RBR is holding back bigtime is a myth. They have the best car this year, that is for sure. Ferrari fell back and Mercedes hasn’t caught up yet.

[Juzh]

They can easily do 370. I mean, even Williams could. But best hide this.

Wasn't that in 2016 at Monza? The Williams was still 0.8s off pole time and finished the race 50+s behind P1. That's because the Williams lacked downforce which meant it wasn't as draggy as the better cars around it. And the PUs were run differently then, too, as Juzh states.

There was a couple of times 2016 cars hit 370 or more. Bottas in baku at 370 (the one from Q3 that's misinterpreted as 378 because of some williams twitter guy incorrectly said so), then again bottas at 372,5 kmh in mexico in speed trap (373,1 at the end of straight - actual highest speed ever in f1), massa and perez also did 370 or more in mexico.

Maximum speed post 2016 cars were able to do is 366 kmh in monza and mexico, and that includes 2019 sf90 rocketship. 2023 cars have got no chance getting up to 370. 365 will already be pushing it.

[AR3-GP]

They can easily do 370. I mean, even Williams could. But best hide this.

Wasn't that in 2016 at Monza? The Williams was still 0.8s off pole time and finished the race 50+s behind P1. That's because the Williams lacked downforce which meant it wasn't as draggy as the better cars around it. And the PUs were run differently then, too, as Juzh states.

They ran wings halve as wide and tires about the same difference. Ofc they can’t reach those kind of speeds. Imho the RBR is holding back bigtime is a myth. They have the best car this year, that is for sure. Ferrari fell back and Mercedes hasn’t caught up yet.

Yeah I don’t think RB are holding back another second still (but who really knows ), but it’s probably something smaller, those last 2-3 tenths coming from ringing the neck of the PU and running very edgy setups which are less comfortable for the driver? They don’t have to do that right now because they aren’t “chasing” anyone.

The team will be hoping they have enough in the tank to make 2014 look fair and I’m sure they would be proud to take the title of most dominant car of all time . Terrifying for the competition however…

[napoleon1981]

I've changed my mind. I think RB are capable of sandbagging and probably are. Through PU performance reduction, and by not running the car as low as possible. They don't need to stress the car that much. It's the logical thing to do in their position. It satisfies political and reliability requirements.

It's the chasing teams who have to run at the limit to get close.

We've seen the potential of the car in the race already as both drivers pushed each other. So no sandbagging there.

As for qualifying, well yeah, could be possible of course - though, it does not really matter as we already know the potential from looking at the race pace and it's easy for the teams to extrapolate from there.

We can't say for sure, but from all the data we have (lap time analysis and comparisons) I think there is more proof that they're not sandbagging in qualifying than the other way around.

The question is out there whether RedBull are even turning up 100% of the their true pace in a way to avoid unwanted attention from the FIA.

I only hear those concerns from the Merc camp. They had been doing it so long, that now they assume others are doing the same. I guess they seem to think that It takes one to know one

[organic]

At this point it's possibly the best car ever.

McLaren in 1988 had senna and prost and that's the only season that a car has led more % of laps than the rb19 after 7 rounds. If we had verstappen and Hamilton in the rb19s the % would surely be 100%.

This 96.2% was achieved with 3 Q1 exits and 1 Q2 exit as well. So it hasn't been going completely smoothly in the process.



Another measure of it would be the advantage relative to the field spread which here is enormous for the modern era.