FOTA starts a breakaway series

[dumrick]

On Twitter:

"Just asked Martin Whitmarsh about 'new' championship. Lola and Prodrive also likely to join."

Now, it's better understood why non-selected teams bidding for 2010's F1 spot started withdrawing their applications.

[kilcoo316]

And the fact that Autosport is reporting this means nothing?

Yup.

If you look elsewhere on this portal, you'll see instances of where other people have been alarmed by autosport's slide to tabloid levels of accuracy.




It is a FACT that the teams are due a substantial amount of money. That money will have been coming from FOM, not the FIA.

Therefore FOTA have a problem with FOM, as well as the FIA.

Autosport reported "suggestions" from "sources" - meanwhile the substantial evidence (i.e. the outstanding monies owed) points towards FOM not being flavour of the month with FOTA.

[WhiteBlue]

I am surprised that FOTA pulled this off so far. I do not see a way back to resolve this any more. The FIA/FOM camp have obviously under estimated the attraction of a series that would not be stripped of 50% of the revenues.

The break away will probably very quickly lead to FOM going bust. With a much reduced low level F1 the debt burden of FOM will not be bearable. Bernie will be out of a job, but he has long put his money elsewhere.

Mateschitz and Ferrari obviously can afford some risky and potentially expensive law suits. With Briatore in charge of commercial affairs of FOTA now I would not be surprised to see him manage the business side of the series in the future.

Once FOM collapses and F1 is significantly damaged FOTA will have the necessary leverage to push their own candidate at the FIA presidential elections. It looks to me as if this has been the objective for some time.

[kilcoo316]

Funny how you point out the part where I asked a question instead of the line by line response picking apart my post that equates to exactly what you stated later in this post.

Questions require answers.


Your statements later on in that post regarding FOTA being caught in a legal web have already been the subject of discussion.


But if you want me to repeat myself:

The FIA’s lawyers have now examined the FOTA threat to begin a breakaway series. The actions of FOTA as a whole, and Ferrari in particular, amount to serious violations of law including (1) wilful interference with contractual relations, (2) direct breaches of Ferrari's legal obligations and a (3) grave violation of competition law. The FIA will be issuing legal proceedings without delay.

Lets examine this statement a bit.

(1) Interference with contractual relations: None of the other FOTA teams bar (maybe) RBR & STR have any contractual obligations (strictly speaking, I think any obligations were with FOM, not the FIA).

Sponsors? We aren't there yet. Either way, most of the sponsors are contracted to the teams.
Tracks? Not there yet either. Also, that is FOM's remit, not the FIAs.

(2)Ferrari's contract has been nulled by the FIA's actions. While Ferrari made a procedural error in submitting their earlier protest to court, the court did state Ferrari had a veto.


(3)Regardless of (1) and (2) FOTA can make a good case for monopolistic anti-competition practices by the FIA in surpressing any genuine competitor to F1. If the FIA are going to try and pursue Ferrari on anti-competition grounds, they are on some seriously dodgy territory... in fact, I would put it as FOTA territory (i.e. an argument FOTA will try to bring before the courts, not the FIA).



The legal threat is weak, both as a threat to FOTA, and a response to FOTA. They have Max and Bernie by the balls, and the pair of crooks know it.

[donskar]

Mosley in Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76332

"I don't take it as seriously as some people do because I know that it is all posturing and posing," Mosley explained in a lengthy interview with the BBC on Friday. "It will all stop sometime between the beginning of 2010 and March 2010, the first race. All this will stop, it will all settle down and everyone will go racing."

When asked if he was totally sure there would be a solution that headed off the possibility of two championships, Mosley said: "Absolutely. I am completely confident because in the end people do what it is in their interests to do.

"It is in the interests of the teams to be in the F1 world championship and there is actually no fundamental or important issue that is stopping them taking part. It is all about personalities and power and who can grab what from whom, which is easy when nothing is at stake but when it gets to the first race and it is make your mind up time, they will be there."

I'm afraid some of us are celebrating a bit prematurely. I expect FIA to get a restraining injunction preventing FOTA from going forward. FIA might believe it does not have to win in court -- just delay.

[jddh1]

Does anyone care to guess where this is going to leave 2009?

With Brawn and Button on the runaway, wouldn't it be smarter to stop 100% F1 development, and concentrate all remaining 2009 resources on setting up the 2010 championship?

Agreed.
Will Button's championship be as glorious knowing that teams aren't even trying anymore?

They will not stop development, I don't think, because if they set up the rules for the new series they might be similar to the current FIA rules, for continuity. But I might be wrong, who knows. I just think it's cheaper to have a gradual move than a huge, abrupt one, so they will continue to develop.

Moreover, I think Button's championship, if he wins it, will not be undermined one bit. Remember, he's dominating now with the teams trying to catch up, so that proves he would be a legitimate and glorious World Champion.

[jddh1]

Mosley in Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76332

"I don't take it as seriously as some people do because I know that it is all posturing and posing," Mosley explained in a lengthy interview with the BBC on Friday. "It will all stop sometime between the beginning of 2010 and March 2010, the first race. All this will stop, it will all settle down and everyone will go racing."

When asked if he was totally sure there would be a solution that headed off the possibility of two championships, Mosley said: "Absolutely. I am completely confident because in the end people do what it is in their interests to do.

"It is in the interests of the teams to be in the F1 world championship and there is actually no fundamental or important issue that is stopping them taking part. It is all about personalities and power and who can grab what from whom, which is easy when nothing is at stake but when it gets to the first race and it is make your mind up time, they will be there."

I'm afraid some of us are celebrating a bit prematurely. I expect FIA to get a restraining injunction preventing FOTA from going forward. FIA might believe it does not have to win in court -- just delay.

That's true, donskar, but that cannot stop them from setting up the series behind closed doors. They could have everything ready and, as things settle, go racing to the new championship pretty much next weekend.

[timbo]

Mosley in Autosport: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76332

"I don't take it as seriously as some people do because I know that it is all posturing and posing," Mosley explained in a lengthy interview with the BBC on Friday. "It will all stop sometime between the beginning of 2010 and March 2010, the first race. All this will stop, it will all settle down and everyone will go racing."

When asked if he was totally sure there would be a solution that headed off the possibility of two championships, Mosley said: "Absolutely. I am completely confident because in the end people do what it is in their interests to do.

"It is in the interests of the teams to be in the F1 world championship and there is actually no fundamental or important issue that is stopping them taking part. It is all about personalities and power and who can grab what from whom, which is easy when nothing is at stake but when it gets to the first race and it is make your mind up time, they will be there."

I'm afraid some of us are celebrating a bit prematurely. I expect FIA to get a restraining injunction preventing FOTA from going forward. FIA might believe it does not have to win in court -- just delay.

That's true, donskar, but that cannot stop them from setting up the series behind closed doors. They could have everything ready and, as things settle, go racing to the new championship pretty much next weekend.

More so, I believe FOTA can afford NOT competing, while Mosley can not.

[Belatti]

Theres one thing for sure, beyonds this power/lawyers/control war and all.

If the break away series really occur, there are already two or three teams like N.Technology and Lola, (who where in the FIA "wait list") that wont follow FIA... because F1 value is not there.

All FIA may have is F1 name, but not F1 itself. The enormus price that name has wont worth much after Williams, Force India and a bunch of F3 teams are the only ones that race in it.

After that, buying again the name F1 should not be that hard. Mosley is in a highway to isolation and Bernie cant avoid his avarice.

[ackzsel]

Am I the only one who's waiting 'till 12 o'clock before popping the champagne? As far as I understood, teams can still submit their entry to the 2010 season (also the FOTA teams).

I'm very happy, though, hearing that the FOTA teams are setting up their own series. Let's hope it will be a successful, exciting and save championship!

[timbo]

Am I the only one who's waiting 'till 12 o'clock before popping the champagne? As far as I understood, teams can still submit their entry to the 2010 season (also the FOTA teams).

I'm very happy, though, hearing that the FOTA teams are setting up their own series. Let's hope it will be a successful, exciting and save championship!

Yes!
I would celebrate even if teams decided to withdraw their application in protest of Max's ruling!

[fbn]

Am I the only one who's waiting 'till 12 o'clock before popping the champagne? As far as I understood, teams can still submit their entry to the 2010 season (also the FOTA teams).

I think, we all should wait till july (or september or octobre) before popping the champagne

I'm very happy, though, hearing that the FOTA teams are setting up their own series. Let's hope it will be a successful, exciting and save championship!

F1 would be very interesting too, I think (perhaps more interesting?). But let's wait a few days. I think in the end it will be a game... Bernie will give away some money, and FOTA will be F1 (and vice versa) next year...

[Conceptual]

And the fact that Autosport is reporting this means nothing?

Yup.

If you look elsewhere on this portal, you'll see instances of where other people have been alarmed by autosport's slide to tabloid levels of accuracy.




It is a FACT that the teams are due a substantial amount of money. That money will have been coming from FOM, not the FIA.

Therefore FOTA have a problem with FOM, as well as the FIA.

Autosport reported "suggestions" from "sources" - meanwhile the substantial evidence (i.e. the outstanding monies owed) points towards FOM not being flavour of the month with FOTA.

And if Bernie were to offer said monies upon immediate payment for 10% holdings, and the promoter role, you still say that FOTA wouldn't jump on that huge sum of monies coming into the startup of their breakaway?

Bernie is NOT stupid. If he can make money on the breakaway, he will! And FOTA doesn't have to like him or what he has done in his past if they are sure that he is working for THEM like he works for the CVC...

SHOW US THE MONEY!

[xpensive]

I would be seriously surprised to hear that anyone, anywhere, would question the financial credibility of a combo of Toyota, Mercedes, BMW, Renault, Fiat and RedBull.

I take their credit card any day of the week.

[Afterburner]

Once FOM collapses and F1 is significantly damaged FOTA will have the necessary leverage to push their own candidate at the FIA presidential elections. It looks to me as if this has been the objective for some time.

Let me call one name for that place: Jean Todt