After Mercedes introduced a thorough upgrade package in Monaco, Ferrari seem to follow suit by debuting a raft of new part at this weekend’s Spanish Grand Prix. F1Technical's Balázs Szabó reports on Ferrari's latest development push.
With the skate now needing to be 15mm higher off of the ground Ferrari seem to still be using it, while RB opted to go with an edge wing in '23.
Well, that put the lot of us in place...
Great stuff!
Superb detective work. It's interesting that Ferrari have not gone for the edge wing as well.vorticism wrote: ↑10 May 2023, 15:06Something is putting sparks in front of the rear wheel during roll. The plank blocks can't supply this, imo.
https://i.postimg.cc/jjNrJ3yw/IMG-0425.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/hjBR880C/IMG-0426.jpg
In this photo by Fabrega we can see six screws heads. This would correspond with the six legs of the ice skate as seen on the RB18 and with the regulations posted above.
With the skate now needing to be 15mm higher off of the ground Ferrari seem to still be using it, while RB opted to go with an edge wing in '23.
GREAT STUFF, thank you so much.vorticism wrote: ↑10 May 2023, 15:06Something is putting sparks in front of the rear wheel during roll. The plank blocks can't supply this, imo.
https://i.postimg.cc/jjNrJ3yw/IMG-0425.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/hjBR880C/IMG-0426.jpg
In this photo by Fabrega we can see six screws heads. This would correspond with the six legs of the ice skate as seen on the RB18 and with the regulations posted above.
With the skate now needing to be 15mm higher off of the ground Ferrari seem to still be using it, while RB opted to go with an edge wing in '23.
The way I see it, the problem is as we discussed here - the car has a good peak of all-round performance, but it has a narrow window in many ways. What is described here sounds like rear tyre squirt management, which Ferrari now has a lot of trouble with (since it wasn't reported last year in this way). Reading between the lines a bit, it came with floor edge raising - which coincides with less predictable car in 2022 since Spa, after they had to raise it to help with bouncing.Although the /driver) duo had initially reported during Friday practice that the car was less spiky, Ferrari says making the car increasingly “predictable” remains top of the priority list.
Jock Clear - who fronted the Ferrari car technical presentation to the media last weekend - reckoned the SF-23’s temperament was a blend of set-up and aerodynamic characteristics. Clear, Leclerc’s driver coach, explained: “It's always a combination of both.
“With a new aero package over the winter, we've taken a while to find the set-up.This floor contributes to getting the car in a better window, as the drivers were reporting earlier it is peaky. We need to get rid of some of that peakiness. That's probably the main focus at the moment, to make the car a bit more benign so the drivers have a bit more confidence.”
Clear outlined that in this ground-effects era of F1, revising the way the floor interacts with the rear wing and tyres was a critical area. This has only been enhanced by the mandated 15mm rise in the floor edge for 2023, a measure introduced by the FIA to limit porpoising.
He said: “The height of the floor relative to the ground is a huge influence on the whole package of downforce. You generate so much downforce on the floor and the rear wing, but they're interconnected. So, that's the area of most people's development. The section just ahead of the rear wheel, where you're controlling the flow that goes either outside the wheel or inside the wheel and therefore into the diffuser area. The changes are quite subtle… but actually, in aerodynamic terms, they're quite powerful. It's just a response to the feedback we've had from the drivers through the first four races of the year in where the car is deficient.”
He continued: “You can move the air around slightly… so give the driver a more consistent balance through medium-speed, high-speed, low-speed, and braking and entry and then exit. All those areas where the floor is moving around a lot, we can try and make the car a bit more benign. That makes it more predictable for the driver.”
Might Ferrari be doing one of the short-term solutions mentioned as an option by you? Do you think the floor they brought to Miami for less peakiness produces less downforce?Vanja #66 wrote: ↑ The way I see it, the problem is as we discussed here - the car has a good peak of all-round performance, but it has a narrow window in many ways. What is described here sounds like rear tyre squirt management, which Ferrari now has a lot of trouble with (since it wasn't reported last year in this way). Reading between the lines a bit, it came with floor edge raising - which coincides with less predictable car in 2022 since Spa, after they had to raise it to help with bouncing.
This remains an issue where a more stable car would help (you don't care if you have a peaky car if you can keep it at that peak at any time at any track) so suspension can help a lot with it in practice. However, as I mentioned earlier, there is a certain physical similarity with W13 - large and exposed rear of the floor (noticeably larger surface than 2022 car) I wouldn't be surprised if this is also part of the reasons for Ferrari's issues, a floor too flexible for its own good. Since Clear himself says that small changes in geometry have a big effect, having that rear part of the floor that flexes in a way you don't expect at times you don't expect will leave you with a lot of performance swings and head scratching.
No, it's not like that, I'm saying it might have the same issues with too flexible floor like W13, but the problems are different. If tyre squirt creeps inside diffuser it will mess up the perofrmance. Since it happens at different speeds and influences the balance, it clearly has a lot to do with ride height. So at one speed range you have decent performance of diffuser, but at other range it drops due to tyre squirt (and/or other turbulence structures) so you get oversteer etc...LM10 wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 21:23Might Ferrari be doing one of the short-term solutions mentioned as an option by you? Do you think the floor they brought to Miami for less peakiness produces less downforce?
The other option would be to try to cope with the peakiness/the downforce by doing suspension work which would need more complex redesign of it - so not before next season.
This area appears considerably different to RB in that the airflow from side of SF23 and ultimately travelling between the wheels, looks to favour volume over top of diffuser structure as primary, in comparison to concentration on sealing that void between the inner tyre face and diffuser vertical fence.Vanja #66 wrote: ↑12 May 2023, 08:18No, it's not like that, I'm saying it might have the same issues with too flexible floor like W13, but the problems are different. If tyre squirt creeps inside diffuser it will mess up the perofrmance. Since it happens at different speeds and influences the balance, it clearly has a lot to do with ride height. So at one speed range you have decent performance of diffuser, but at other range it drops due to tyre squirt (and/or other turbulence structures) so you get oversteer etc...LM10 wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 21:23Might Ferrari be doing one of the short-term solutions mentioned as an option by you? Do you think the floor they brought to Miami for less peakiness produces less downforce?
The other option would be to try to cope with the peakiness/the downforce by doing suspension work which would need more complex redesign of it - so not before next season.
Because of 3 things. First, the rules are different (minimum floor edge height and diffuser throat height) and therefore the 2022 car would be illegal this year.bluechris wrote: ↑12 May 2023, 12:05May I put a question to the most knowledgeable people here?
From what I understand, the rule that paralyzed Ferrari last year is not being applied silently. (If not correct, ignore my question).
So the question is, why Ferrari doesn't roll back to the 1st iteration of the 2022 car and with this year motor and a better suspension, will not be overall better?
And yet, Red Bull walked the business side of their floor down the pit lane last year in full view of photographers' cameras.
Does what you described here is actually connected with the "peakiness" of the car?Vanja #66 wrote: ↑12 May 2023, 08:18No, it's not like that, I'm saying it might have the same issues with too flexible floor like W13, but the problems are different. If tyre squirt creeps inside diffuser it will mess up the perofrmance. Since it happens at different speeds and influences the balance, it clearly has a lot to do with ride height. So at one speed range you have decent performance of diffuser, but at other range it drops due to tyre squirt (and/or other turbulence structures) so you get oversteer etc...LM10 wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 21:23Might Ferrari be doing one of the short-term solutions mentioned as an option by you? Do you think the floor they brought to Miami for less peakiness produces less downforce?
The other option would be to try to cope with the peakiness/the downforce by doing suspension work which would need more complex redesign of it - so not before next season.
