This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Still not sure how you can get a undercut on your sidepod and keep the mid-wing.
You don't. The vertical inlet (W14 version) doesn't have an undercut. It's vertical or slightly canted out at the base like last year. OP was wondering how the vertical inlet is legal.
Interesting detail: the inlet does not start until aft of the wing. If I read the rules correctly, this is about where the sidepod legality box terminates. If so, that's why the aft face of the wing has a bluff face; the wing can't go further back. The inlet also can't be farther back because that is the engine cover region which is not permitted to have openings of this sort. So the inlet is as far back as it can be, although, why isn't it any farther forward? I could be while still meeting all the regs; it just doesn't offer any aero value would be my guess.
Interesting article. I don't know if Anderson reads this forum but a lot of what he is saying has been said here long before. Especially about the Centre of pressure and the suspension geometry.
I think the only way any sort of conclusion can be drawn is after a couple of race weekends. Furthermore the weather this weekend in Imola is not looking too good as well. So will Mercedes really have a good baseline to see if their upgrades are working?
I guess it'll be a race or two before Mercedes find out if they've reached a good baseline to move the W14's
development forward. I think some here are overthinking the side pod redesign. They will likely be able to repackage
the cooling systems etc to enable a change in side pod design that complies with the technical regulations. It might be a compromised design given they can't change the chassis until next year due to the cost cap. More important than the side pod design is the mechanical platform of the car in terms of the suspension etc allowing them to run the car lower to maximise the performance of the Floor.
I think Mercedes fans have to accept that Mercedes might not ever be competitive under these regulations, and that Mercedes will have to wait for the next set of regulation changes in 2026 to be competitive once more. But hopefully Mercedes can turn it around for 2024 and 2025. What happens in 2023 is critical to that. James Allison probably won't have an impact on the car until later in the season, though I suspect his focus will probably be on the W15 already.
A resumption of the battle between Mercedes and Redbull is what I want to see happen, possibly with Ferrari getting into the mix if they can drag themselves out their current shambles.
I think they'll know within ten laps of FP1 if it's significantly changed, and which direction that change is in.
They have clearly targeted very specific attributes (I cant imagine anything but shift from mid wing to conventional) along with understanding where they want to take front suspension geometry to help whichever aero platform they end with.
This iteration, along with W13, has been achieving position in races and WCC quite considerably above it's raw natural performance level. That's testament to the two drivers and their application from lights out to chequered flag, utmost persistence in dragging everything they can out of it. It's not something, I feel, that many other drivers are able to deliver consistently with such a variable vehicle dynamic, certainly more impressive than it really deserves in purely benchmarked against other teams chassis/concept native performance.
They really knew at pre season run when at Silverstone, in my view, that this one was effectively firing blanks too, like last year. Go back over the words used after that first run and see the attempt at positive spin that came out of it. Confirmation in day one test at Bahrain, hence the further words of despair, and then commitment to this shift we now see.
They'll know immediately. If their work is critically targeted at shortcomings, I feel it'll be a significant step forward.
My view is still theyll scrap the midwing concept. Driver position and some other concerns about suspension aside, the chassis doesn't seem that poor in relation to others around it in track performance, enhanced aero shift should easily make it more complete.
They have an incredibly close relationship with AM. To the point where they basically let them copy an entire car a few years back.
Whatever trick(s) AM gained from hiring Redbull staff does not involve shared components like the rear suspension etc.
I find it likely that AM will pass the information on to Mercedes and the car will take a direct that aligns with this.
Sure. I mean they are a Merc customer. And everyone who works with customers knows that they are all over them to get a RedBull rear suspension. That is how the world works....and that one has a good idea and everyone else tries to copy it is the truth in F1...
Still the problem is that with a copy you do not win. The BIG question is if the sidepod concept still comes alive.
I think Mercedes fans have to accept that Mercedes might not ever be competitive under these regulations, and that Mercedes will have to wait for the next set of regulation changes in 2026 to be competitive once more. But hopefully Mercedes can turn it around for 2024 and 2025.
Pretty much exactly my thoughts. Damage done, and it’s just a slow, snail paced climb back to the summit now. Like what’s gone before, they had their era, and now it’s, RB’s.
Can see them achieving what RB did towards the end of the last reg, and catching up, most likely, in, 25’.
There is still scope for different shaping of the front sidepod area. The Williams solution, f.e., could be increased in size by turning the midwing into an r shaped bargeboard, connecting it with the floor. Who knows. If they double down and show up with a double midwing then its over.
I think Mercedes fans have to accept that Mercedes might not ever be competitive under these regulations, and that Mercedes will have to wait for the next set of regulation changes in 2026 to be competitive once more. But hopefully Mercedes can turn it around for 2024 and 2025.
Pretty much exactly my thoughts. Damage done, and it’s just a slow, snail paced climb back to the summit now. Like what’s gone before, they had their era, and now it’s, RB’s.
Can see them achieving what RB did towards the end of the last reg, and catching up, most likely, in, 25’.
There is a good chance this will be correct.
My only counter-argument (for the sake of playing devil's advocate) would be based on the car having a major flaw. That is very different to having a car that is just poor at everything.
There is a chance when that is fixed (which could potentially be this weekend) the car is only 0.3 off of Redbull and then it's a very different game as that is within catching distance. Especially as Redbull have restricted development. Not that restrictions have stopped them before, but you get the point.
If this weekend there is not a hint of the fundamentals being resolved, then yeah all hope for them is likely gone for the next few years.
I think Mercedes fans have to accept that Mercedes might not ever be competitive under these regulations, and that Mercedes will have to wait for the next set of regulation changes in 2026 to be competitive once more. But hopefully Mercedes can turn it around for 2024 and 2025.
Pretty much exactly my thoughts. Damage done, and it’s just a slow, snail paced climb back to the summit now. Like what’s gone before, they had their era, and now it’s, RB’s.
Can see them achieving what RB did towards the end of the last reg, and catching up, most likely, in, 25’.
There is a good chance this will be correct.
My only counter-argument (for the sake of playing devil's advocate) would be based on the car having a major flaw. That is very different to having a car that is just poor at everything.
There is a chance when that is fixed (which could potentially be this weekend) the car is only 0.3 off of Redbull and then it's a very different game as that is within catching distance. Especially as Redbull have restricted development. Not that restrictions have stopped them before, but you get the point.
If this weekend there is not a hint of the fundamentals being resolved, then yeah all hope for them is likely gone for the next few years.
Even if there is a major flaw, it will not be as bad as all that because they will then know it is time to bin it and get on with next years car.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
I guess it'll be a race or two before Mercedes find out if they've reached a good baseline to move the W14's
development forward. I think some here are overthinking the side pod redesign. They will likely be able to repackage
the cooling systems etc to enable a change in side pod design that complies with the technical regulations. It might be a compromised design given they can't change the chassis until next year due to the cost cap. More important than the side pod design is the mechanical platform of the car in terms of the suspension etc allowing them to run the car lower to maximise the performance of the Floor.
I think Mercedes fans have to accept that Mercedes might not ever be competitive under these regulations, and that Mercedes will have to wait for the next set of regulation changes in 2026 to be competitive once more. But hopefully Mercedes can turn it around for 2024 and 2025. What happens in 2023 is critical to that. James Allison probably won't have an impact on the car until later in the season, though I suspect his focus will probably be on the W15 already.
A resumption of the battle between Mercedes and Redbull is what I want to see happen, possibly with Ferrari getting into the mix if they can drag themselves out their current shambles.
Yep. The sidepod change from what I understand is to rule out the possibility that the old ones could be an issue. The real change in this concept is the ability to run the car lower. That is where the performance is.
