2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[taperoo2k]

0.3 off red bull? Where did the other half a second go?

If the upgrades work then I expect Mercedes might get a bit closer to Red Bull, but to be
0.3 seconds behind? That would take an engineering miracle to achieve. I think some need to
get a bit of expectation management in place, lest they be disappointed if this upgrade either
doesn't work or it takes Mercedes several races to understand it and optimise the car.

[Bill]

Pretty much exactly my thoughts. Damage done, and it’s just a slow, snail paced climb back to the summit now. Like what’s gone before, they had their era, and now it’s, RB’s.

Can see them achieving what RB did towards the end of the last reg, and catching up, most likely, in, 25’.

There is a good chance this will be correct.

My only counter-argument (for the sake of playing devil's advocate) would be based on the car having a major flaw. That is very different to having a car that is just poor at everything.

There is a chance when that is fixed (which could potentially be this weekend) the car is only 0.3 off of Redbull and then it's a very different game as that is within catching distance. Especially as Redbull have restricted development. Not that restrictions have stopped them before, but you get the point.

If this weekend there is not a hint of the fundamentals being resolved, then yeah all hope for them is likely gone for the next few years.

Even if there is a major flaw, it will not be as bad as all that because they will then know it is time to bin it and get on with next years car.

The pu is weaker than ferrari and honda ,it's not reliable either one retirement could spell disaster in a championship fight .so merc won't be winning anything in the next 3 years.

[AR3-GP]

0.3 off red bull? Where did the other half a second go?

If the upgrades work then I expect Mercedes might get a bit closer to Red Bull, but to be
0.3 seconds behind? That would take an engineering miracle to achieve. I think some need to
get a bit of expectation management in place, lest they be disappointed if this upgrade either
doesn't work or it takes Mercedes several races to understand it and optimise the car.

This kind of thing can be track dependent and execution dependent.

Good Merc track, bad RB track? Sure
Good Merc setup, bad RB setup? Sure

They may even overlap if things go bad enough for RB while Mercedes nail it.

[Mansell89]

Hey guys, question from a non-tech but very interested fan please!

When we say Merc are struggling to run their car lower to the ground, does this mean that they’re currently even higher than the minimum ride height that was set in the regs for this season?

Or does suspension and or other parts enable all cars to ride up and down above and below that ride height limit depending on the speed, corner etc? So is ride height a measurement when a car is stationary?

Hope I’m making sense - not the best at putting tech questions into layman speak!

[PlatinumZealot]

The F1 suspension is very dynamic. Each speed range has an optimal ride height. If you can get the car to be in the best height for the given speed and still maintain stability you make the best downforce.

It's not a static thing that you will see. Very much depends on the track and the different turns on the track and suspension settings.

The gist of what pundits are saying now is that RedBull can achieve optimal ride heights (usually lower at high speed corners) without gettig instability from shifting weight transfer, bumps, in roll, over curbs, porpoisng etc.. They don't have to raise their car up or run an ultra stiff setup.


Photos show that they have an extremely complex rear suspension that takes up much space. The innards of the front suspension haven't been seen in public as far as I know though.

[Jdn1327]

The F1 suspension is very dynamic. Each speed range has an optimal ride height. If you can get the car to be in the best height for the given speed and still maintain stability you make the best downforce.

It's not a static thing that you will see. Very much depends on the track and the different turns on the track and suspension settings.

The gist of what pundits are saying now is that RedBull can achieve optimal ride heights (usually lower at high speed corners) without gettig instability from shifting weight transfer, bumps, in roll, over curbs, porpoisng etc.. They don't have to raise their car up or run an ultra stiff setup.


Photos show that they have an extremely complex rear suspension that takes up much space. The innards of the front suspension haven't been seen in public as far as I know though.

If im not mistaken it's very difficult or almost near impossible to replicate red bulls suspension setup because of the complexity but also because of their gearbox design. It's a lot narrower that Mercedes and due to homogolation of the gearbox it wouldn't be possible for Mercedes to follow this design philosophy.

[ValeVida46]

The F1 suspension is very dynamic. Each speed range has an optimal ride height. If you can get the car to be in the best height for the given speed and still maintain stability you make the best downforce.

It's not a static thing that you will see. Very much depends on the track and the different turns on the track and suspension settings.

The gist of what pundits are saying now is that RedBull can achieve optimal ride heights (usually lower at high speed corners) without gettig instability from shifting weight transfer, bumps, in roll, over curbs, porpoisng etc.. They don't have to raise their car up or run an ultra stiff setup.


Photos show that they have an extremely complex rear suspension that takes up much space. The innards of the front suspension haven't been seen in public as far as I know though.

If im not mistaken it's very difficult or almost near impossible to replicate red bulls suspension setup because of the complexity but also because of their gearbox design. It's a lot narrower that Mercedes and due to homogolation of the gearbox it wouldn't be possible for Mercedes to follow this design philosophy.

It doesn't require 1:1 replication. We saw in the EBD era and others that there's more than 1 way to skin a cat.
Upgrading the rear suspension is very much on the cards, Ferrari have already said they're going to introduce a rear suspension upgrade themselves, which translates as a plausible avenue for Mercedes.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferra ... 10470363/

[PlatinumZealot]

F1 gearboxes tend to be fatter at the top and have this upside-down triangle cross-section. RedBull's push rod allows them to use maybe slightly less parts, and thus weight since pushrods directky go to the top of the gearbox. I imagine Mercedes and other pull-rod teams have to use a bigger bell crank or an extra linakge in tgere somewhere, the they should have enough room to replicate what's happening.

[AR3-GP]

Hmm this GP cancellation will put Merc 2-3 weeks behind. Monaco is useless.

[wogx]

Maybe even God doesn't want their domination to return, but flooding a whole region to prevent it was to much IMO /s

[taperoo2k]

Hmm this GP cancellation will put Merc 2-3 weeks behind. Monaco is useless.

Even a limited amount of data will be useful to Mercedes. At the very least they can
give the new parts a shakedown and test the suspension over the kerbs in Monaco. You
have to be incredibly precise not to hit the barriers in Monaco. If the suspension is off then it's probably
crash bang wallop time and cries from Crofty of "Oh No the Mercedes has hit the barrier, which driver is it?"

[AR3-GP]

Hmm this GP cancellation will put Merc 2-3 weeks behind. Monaco is useless.

Even a limited amount of data will be useful to Mercedes. At the very least they can
give the new parts a shakedown and test the suspension over the kerbs in Monaco. You
have to be incredibly precise not to hit the barriers in Monaco. If the suspension is off then it's probably
crash bang wallop time and cries from Crofty of "Oh No the Mercedes has hit the barrier, which driver is it?"

Monaco is a strong outlier though. Merc had championship winning cars that were at their weakest in Monaco. No one cares about being good there (in the grand scheme).

[Sofa King]

Maybe it’s time for Merc to use their demonstration event allotment to run the new spec for 15km at Silverstone. Better than nothing?

[AR3-GP]

Maybe it’s time for Merc to use their demonstration event allotment to run the new spec for 15km at Silverstone. Better than nothing?

Unlikely. There’s not enough time. The cars and spares are already in Imola. They won’t be able to get equipment back out until the roads open again which may not be until Saturday. They’ll have to start sending equipment to Monaco by then.

[georgekyr]

All teams will be able to spend saved money from not racing to car improvement under the cost cap. So, you could also see a positive aspect for Merc as well.