2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Mostlyeels]

https://www.racefans.net/2023/05/24/off ... team-2026/

It's official.

Honda has confirmed it will return to Formula 1 in 2026 as power unit manufacturer, supplying engines to current Mercedes customer Aston Martin.

[Mansell89]

https://www.racefans.net/2023/05/24/off ... team-2026/

It's official.

Honda has confirmed it will return to Formula 1 in 2026 as power unit manufacturer, supplying engines to current Mercedes customer Aston Martin.

Very good news for AM- disappointed as a McLaren fan though. Starting to worry about a permanent midfield approach with our team- looks like we could be a customer for some time to come.

Only talks I’m aware of was with “RB Powertrains” for 26?

[Ben1980]

Is it good news for AM? Honda are notoriously flakey. And AM have been built on all its links to Mercedes. Didn't Toto say they have half a merc or something.

[basti313]

Is it good news for AM? Honda are notoriously flakey. And AM have been built on all its links to Mercedes. Didn't Toto say they have half a merc or something.

Well, they will have their issues for a max of one or two seasons to get the gearbox and suspension right. Then they will start to comped with the other works teams. We have seen this...
For me it is also visible in the points. We have Aston as the only "out of position" team in the standings and Alpine under performing with for example their double crash in Oz. If you take these two unusual things into account we see the usual picture with works teams leading.
So for me this is bad news for McLaren. Without a works contract they will simply not get out of the midfield for more than a lucky season.

[Ben1980]

This works deal, seems to have become some sort of mythical Nirvana all encompassing greatness. It's just no more than, something people cling onto.

A Honda deal almost killed Mclaren. A BMW deal almost killed Sauber and Williams.

[aray]

This works deal, seems to have become some sort of mythical Nirvana all encompassing greatness. It's just no more than, something people cling onto.

A Honda deal almost killed Mclaren. A BMW deal almost killed Sauber and Williams.

Last time William was championship contender, they were work team of BMW. Last time Sauber was winning race, it was work team of BMW. Last time Macca dominated, it was work team of Merc.
There are overwhelming positive past outcomes in the favor of work status.

[Ben1980]

This works deal, seems to have become some sort of mythical Nirvana all encompassing greatness. It's just no more than, something people cling onto.

A Honda deal almost killed Mclaren. A BMW deal almost killed Sauber and Williams.

Last time William was championship contender, they were work team of BMW. Last time Sauber was winning race, it was work team of BMW. Last time Macca dominated, it was work team of Merc.
There are overwhelming positive past outcomes in the favor of work status.

Sauber winning a race with BMW doesn't cone anywhere close to Sauber almost going out of business and needing to be pretty much rebuilt.

Work status isn't sone sort of magic bullet.

[Farnborough]

Many example can be used to say the opposite in this argument.

RB thrashed Renault when they had their V6 turbo in this era, works deal or not ?

Brawn won the championship as customer of MB (while mclaren had works status) and with Honda gearbox with adapter plate to amalgamate the two, as I understand.

It's the quality of thinking available in the team that ultimately controls this function in pure performance terms. Look where MB is currently against AM

[aray]

Renault made their engine with giving RB the priority. Whole exhaust blowing concept was their joint work. Brawn's success was due to trick of double diffuser, they lucked out for a year(more precisely for half a year). To get consistent top result years after years, work deal is the only way to go.
Even if Aston is faster than Merc now, they can't control the design or weight distribution of engine to their liking. Once Merc sorts out their aero, they will always have the starting advantage over Aston. Work deal works because it take cares of your requirement first.

[Macklaren]

Zak teased something exciting coming on the day the AM-Honda deal was announced. I would not at all be surprised if McLaren sign a 2026 engine supply agreement with Audi before the end of the year

[Farnborough]

And Ferrari is always a works deal, its just not a competent argument in either direction.

Relevant here, Mclaren found out just how poor their chassis engineering was when they went to Renault from Honda, and ran alongside RB using the same power unit.

Poor performance is in the design.

[Ben1980]

Though you stick any engine in the red bull, they probably still win everything.

[Farnborough]

Though you stick any engine in the red bull, they probably still win everything.

Exactly, it's the thinking in that design that's currently causing most consternation amongst other teams.

Using two of Mercedes customer teams as illustration in this current era, McLaren performance against AM it's just embarrassing for them really.

[mclaren111]

https://mclaren.bloomreach.io/cdn-cgi/i ... 0x1080.jpg

Monaco livery. I like it! Simple and bold!

This is very close to what I wish they would do, only that I wish the front portion was also papaya. That, I think would really combine the elements of their history in a coherent way.

You could even go one step further and shape the painted front part in the same shape as their swooshy logo (wing?) thing (which would also differentiate it from the Marlboro chevron ).

Agreed...

[basti313]

This works deal, seems to have become some sort of mythical Nirvana all encompassing greatness. It's just no more than, something people cling onto.

A Honda deal almost killed Mclaren. A BMW deal almost killed Sauber and Williams.

The killing was down to too much money from the engine manufacturers at this time. Today you just pay for the engine, but there is barely a payment from engine manufacturer to the team.

Many example can be used to say the opposite in this argument.

But they are bad examples. RedBull was the Renault works team over years and dictating the development, because their own team was simply not good enough. Well...at the beginning of the Turbo aera you could see that the chassis and engine do not work well together.

Brawn is also a bad example as it was a one off.

On the other hand all long term statistics in modern F1 show that it is necessary to be a works team to compete in the top4.

One could also bring another example...in 2021 Hamilton was only able to compete for the WDC until the end because Mercedes build/selected special engines for him...