FOTA starts a breakaway series

[ESPImperium]

Kazuki Nakajima, "F1" Champ 2010...:D

On the weight of his performances this year, i think that he would make his way over to the FOTA series as well.

[donskar]

Max and Bernie have over played their hand. Mosley refused to negotiate about a new set of competition, technical, financial and governance rules claiming there is no time because the new teams must be told now. He has made that claim and then called it off . That shows he lost his game.

Bernie refused to share more of FOM'ds revenues which could have been used to ease the problems of new entrants against established rich teams. He will loose big time as soon as he signs any new contract and will face many demands to lower his asking price in the light of the weak grid F1 will have without FOTA.

Martin Witmarsh has said that as of end of June FOTA will start implementing new deals and structures for the break away series. http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=333408

FOTA are gaining credibility with Nico Rosberg saying he can't stay with Williams. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 0340.shtml

WB, many thanks for that (MotorSport) link. I find it a bit scary:

But Whitmarsh said at Silverstone that late July is the key date, and that until then FOTA is "open to finding a solution if we can".

"The teams are ready to discuss with anybody how we go racing next year," he said.

"I think by the end of July, everybody is going be progressively on diverging paths, so whatever separates us today will be greater by then," Whitmarsh added.

If that is an accurate quote, then it is very clear that FOTA has not decided that they will definitely go ahead on their own.

I will sometimes play devil's advocate to spur a bit of discussion, but not this time. I am just not as confident as most of you that FOTA has definitely "won."

I see this as a horror movie with Max playing the bad guy from the "Halloween" series -- he is not dead yet and he will be very hard to kill.

I will be overjoyed to be proven wrong.

[vall]

But Mosley claims this:

Mosley said every team in the FOTA group has been paid commercial revenues for the coming seasons in advance, so Ecclestone will be asking for it back.
"In the case of one team, that would be in excess of £100m pound. In every other case, it is tens of millions of pounds," he said.

I thought it was only Williams that had gotten monet up front. FOTA, in their breakaway statement said that:

Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006.

It makes me wonder what Mosley is talking about.

right, that's weird! Before season 2009 started there was a report saying that representatives of the teams (led by Flav) went to MrE and said "we are not flying to Aus until you pay the money from 2006-2008". Then MrE told them he was not paying because they had not signed the Concorde Agreement, etc.

Perhaps MM is referring to the extra 100 MEuro Ferrari is taking from FOM?

[Conceptual]

Will that be the same court which decided that a hole is not necessarily a hole, when it is a slot?

Still on that one? Want to throw in about the people that decided that the TMD was an aero device as well?

With your intellect, I guess I just expect more from your posts...

[WhiteBlue]

AFAIK there is an argument about the letter of intend which provided the last basis for payments. Bernie requires the automotive teams to have their parents sign up for five years. Clearly neither BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Renault or Honda did that. So the teams may think they are entitled to the money but according to Bernie they are in breach of contract regarding the letter of understanding and he can hold back monies for that. In contractual issues I would not bet against Bernie. He is a thief but he lets you sign the receipt before he goes off with the money.

[xpensive]

When I'm the kinda guy who takes a compliment in any which way they come, I can live with whatever you xpect from me.

TMD? Don't have a clue as to what you are referrng to, but there was this court adressing a Renault suepension system as a "moveable aerodynamical device".

I actually discussed this whih a lawyer friend of mine, when he was surprised Renault didn't sue FIA's pants off.

[gcdugas]

When I'm the kinda guy who takes a compliment in any which way they come, I can live with whatever you xpect from me.

TMD? Don't have a clue as to what you are referrng to, but there was this court adressing a Renault suepension system as a "moveable aerodynamical device".

I actually discussed this whih a lawyer friend of mine, when he was surprised Renault didn't sue FIA's pants off.

TMD = Tuned Mass Damper.

[xpensive]

So it was called cd. Point being that under MrM's governance, the FIA has turned legal proceedings into a mockerey, when anything disliked could be labelled as "bringing the sport in disrepute". North Korean rethoric if you ask me.

[Conceptual]

Friday Press Conference

The testing agreement is a totally voluntary agreement between the teams. It wasn’t an initiative started by the FIA, it was an initiative started by the teams. We all agreed to it and to my knowledge nobody has ever breached the testing agreement, and that’s purely voluntary. So it is possible for the teams to see the way forward and act honourably and sensibly in these things.

So, does this mean that Williams and FIF1 can immediately start in-season testing to catch up since they have been suspended by FOTA? And since it is completely voluntary, will the rest of FOTA need to test to stay ahead?

If I were Williams, I would seriously be testing immediately. Their car isn't really that far behind, and they no longer answer to FOTA...

[xpensive]

Testing for what Conc, on how to beat FI, Campos and Redneck racing next year?

[The FOZ]

If I were Williams, I would seriously be testing immediately. Their car isn't really that far behind, and they no longer answer to FOTA...

They've been suspended, not excommunicated!

Further,

Breakaway series or not, it is in Williams' best interest to not further exacerbate the situation between themselves and FOTA. Chances are better than good that one way or another, they WILL be racing with the rest of the FOTA crew next season.

The testing agreement is a gentleman's agreement in sport. Nobody's going to even think about breaking that.

[Conceptual]

Testing for what Conc, on how to beat FI, Campos and Redneck racing next year?

Why not? I'm sure Williams would take a WCC, even if it is against all new teams!

And I agree that Williams would NOT break the agreement to make the situation worse, but we still have Bernie and Max looking to divide FOTA any way that they can, and having a few weeks of testing set up for FIF1 and Williams at FIA/FOM's expense could be a serious angle to consider...

[xpensive]

I think the only thing which will matter for next year, is whatever technical rules GPWC will decide upon.

They will probably stay with the dwarf-V8s for 2010, but after that, who knows?
3 liter V10s or diesel turbos with full-blown ground-effects perhaps?

Testing anything before that is just burning money to my mind.

[Conceptual]

If Williams and FIF1 do test, I think that FOTA will immediately withdraw from 2009 competition.

And that may be exactly what Bernie and Max want, so the fans will not follow them.

[xpensive]

I believe, after the ground-effect ruling, that FOTA has already given up on 2009.

RBR might be putting up a struggle, but that's about it. Next year will be a different matter though.