2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[f1jcw]

Sorry but way way too early for any such type of judgement and I've not seen much PR about it.
Monaco isn't really the place to evaluate a new package and not have chance to set it up correctly.

Lewis didn't look dissatisfied at all

This.

Never understand why Mercedes upgrades or press releases should be treated with more scrutiny or reverence than other teams.
Was a good result for the team today, but by christ you wouldn't know it reading some of the comments.

Merc is the one who wrote an apology letter to fans after finishing P4 and P6 in Bahrain...

and whats that got to do with anything?

[f1jcw]

At this point, what the drivers were doing is irrelevant.

I don't know about you all, but I feel like there's been a fair bit of PR polished press regarding this upgrade. Hamilton is doing his best to put on a positive face but honestly if you look at how he struggles to really say it's better after the race today....It reminds me of all the carefully worded statements when the W14 first launched, only to find out Hamilton was saying it was mostly the same problems as last year, as the season wore in.

I'm not sold on the upgrade package at all. Time will tell. Hamilton won't hide his dissatisfaction for much longer.

There is no reality in which we can judge the success of the package after one race in Monaco of all places. Although, is it worth pointing out that they were 8 tenths off pole last year and 3 this year? And both cars in the top 5 in the race?

And Alpine was 1 tenth off pole, and finished on the podium and this is RB's worst circuit in theory.

Of course this may be premature, but a driver knows right away, as Hamilton knew on the shakedown and I see mixed signals from Hamilton already. It's already been said that the rear is still unstable.

It's a team effort, and everyone is going to do their best to be positive about the current situation, so everything with a grain of salt. I just feel that Hamilton was sending mixed signals already. He knows there is still a long way to go.

I think you are projecting your own hopes and feelings.
A brand new car around Monaco is no place to make any judgement about stability when still learning about setup, but you know that already.

[AR3-GP]

There is no reality in which we can judge the success of the package after one race in Monaco of all places. Although, is it worth pointing out that they were 8 tenths off pole last year and 3 this year? And both cars in the top 5 in the race?

And Alpine was 1 tenth off pole, and finished on the podium and this is RB's worst circuit in theory.

Of course this may be premature, but a driver knows right away, as Hamilton knew on the shakedown and I see mixed signals from Hamilton already. It's already been said that the rear is still unstable.

It's a team effort, and everyone is going to do their best to be positive about the current situation, so everything with a grain of salt. I just feel that Hamilton was sending mixed signals already. He knows there is still a long way to go.

There is still a long way to go, but I didn’t see mixed signals in his comments.

They’re consistent with what the team (George, etc.) has said all weekend. Except he does point out one specific positive improvement.

“The car feels really stiff, there were lots of bumps, yeah, tricky but definitely noticed one particular part of the car that was better but I’m sure next week the whole thing will be a much, much better package.”

Maybe it's just a matter of interpretation, but this quote of yours was one of my reference points about the mixed signals.

It's odd to say "definitely noticed one particular part of the car that was better" with a package that was supposed to make the whole car more stable, confidence inspiring. So he found ONE thing? What about the rest?

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if you watched the live interview, you also see HOW it was said and I felt there's an awkward cadence to what he said. It wasn't the response of someone who had driven a car which had been so obviously better than what he was driving in Miami. It felt more along the lines of how he started describing the differences of the launch spec W14 to it's predecessor. Carefully trying to avoid ****tting on the teams efforts...

[zibby43]

And Alpine was 1 tenth off pole, and finished on the podium and this is RB's worst circuit in theory.

Of course this may be premature, but a driver knows right away, as Hamilton knew on the shakedown and I see mixed signals from Hamilton already. It's already been said that the rear is still unstable.

It's a team effort, and everyone is going to do their best to be positive about the current situation, so everything with a grain of salt. I just feel that Hamilton was sending mixed signals already. He knows there is still a long way to go.

There is still a long way to go, but I didn’t see mixed signals in his comments.

They’re consistent with what the team (George, etc.) has said all weekend. Except he does point out one specific positive improvement.

“The car feels really stiff, there were lots of bumps, yeah, tricky but definitely noticed one particular part of the car that was better but I’m sure next week the whole thing will be a much, much better package.”

Maybe it's just a matter of interpretation, but this quote of yours was one of my reference points about the mixed signals.

It's odd to say "definitely noticed one particular part of the car that was better" with a package that was supposed to make the whole car more stable, confidence inspiring. So he found ONE thing? What about the rest?

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if you watched the live interview, you also see HOW it was said and I felt there's an awkward cadence to what he said. It wasn't the response of someone who had driven a car which had been so obviously better than what he was driving in Miami. It felt more along the lines of how he started describing the differences of the launch spec W14 to it's predecessor. Carefully trying to avoid ****tting on the teams efforts...

I just think there’s only so much you can extrapolate from a circuit like Monaco.

There are several instances in the dominant Merc era where the car was nowhere. It’s just such an outlier that’s largely decided in qualifying.

Edit:

I don’t know why we are suddenly ignoring these comments?

“I've generally had an amazing day. I really enjoyed driving today. It's not the place to ultimately test an upgrade but the car was generally feeling good," Hamilton said.

"A bit of a shame we weren't as close as I'd have hoped at the end of the session but definitely felt the improvements and we've just got to keep chipping away at it and see if we can squeeze any more juice out of the car.”

[chrisc90]

Didnt he say it was hard to drive and a bit like a dog? During FP and Quali? No rear grip and the rears were overheating?

I know its Monaco, and possibly a big outlier, but Barcelona is in 5 days time and probably a lot more representative of any performance upgrades.

[zibby43]

Didnt he say it was hard to drive and a bit like a dog? During FP and Quali? No rear grip and the rears were overheating?

I know its Monaco, and possibly a big outlier, but Barcelona is in 5 days time and probably a lot more representative of any performance upgrades.

That’s no different than any other driver making comments about setup around Monaco. Verstappen said the car was a bottoming out POS in FP1. There’s a difference between in-the-moment snap judgments about setup or a trait in a given moment and overall sentiment about the car.

[ValeVida46]

Merc is the one who wrote an apology letter to fans after finishing P4 and P6 in Bahrain...

And?

Ferrari apologised fans in 2020, and 2022.
McLaren did so on several occasions over the last few years.

I didn't know there was some arbitrary definition of critique based on which livery the team has...

[chrisc90]

Didnt he say it was hard to drive and a bit like a dog? During FP and Quali? No rear grip and the rears were overheating?

I know its Monaco, and possibly a big outlier, but Barcelona is in 5 days time and probably a lot more representative of any performance upgrades.

That’s no different than any other driver making comments about setup around Monaco. Verstappen said the car was a bottoming out POS in FP1. There’s a difference between in-the-moment snap judgments about setup or a trait in a given moment and overall sentiment about the car.

I know, I know. But as I said, Monaco is a big outlier and people will have a better idea in 5 days time when there's a proper track to race on and much easier to get the car in a good setup.

[f1jcw]

Didnt he say it was hard to drive and a bit like a dog? During FP and Quali? No rear grip and the rears were overheating?

I know its Monaco, and possibly a big outlier, but Barcelona is in 5 days time and probably a lot more representative of any performance upgrades.

That’s no different than any other driver making comments about setup around Monaco. Verstappen said the car was a bottoming out POS in FP1. There’s a difference between in-the-moment snap judgments about setup or a trait in a given moment and overall sentiment about the car.

Monaco also needs a lot of confidence to drive around fast as if you make a mistake in the narrow roads, thats it, game over.
Would you be filled with confidence flinging a car around that is totally new, not only aero, but suspension, where set up is still unknown.

[zibby43]

Didnt he say it was hard to drive and a bit like a dog? During FP and Quali? No rear grip and the rears were overheating?

I know its Monaco, and possibly a big outlier, but Barcelona is in 5 days time and probably a lot more representative of any performance upgrades.

That’s no different than any other driver making comments about setup around Monaco. Verstappen said the car was a bottoming out POS in FP1. There’s a difference between in-the-moment snap judgments about setup or a trait in a given moment and overall sentiment about the car.

I know, I know. But as I said, Monaco is a big outlier and people will have a better idea in 5 days time when there's a proper track to race on and much easier to get the car in a good setup.

I agree. I would say if Merc are threatening for at least 2 podium spots, that would be a massive step. Threatening one on pure pace would be a solid step. Consolidating 4/5/6 would be staying still relative to AM and Ferrari as those teams continue to upgrade their cars.

[zibby43]

Didnt he say it was hard to drive and a bit like a dog? During FP and Quali? No rear grip and the rears were overheating?

I know its Monaco, and possibly a big outlier, but Barcelona is in 5 days time and probably a lot more representative of any performance upgrades.

That’s no different than any other driver making comments about setup around Monaco. Verstappen said the car was a bottoming out POS in FP1. There’s a difference between in-the-moment snap judgments about setup or a trait in a given moment and overall sentiment about the car.

Monaco also needs a lot of confidence to drive around fast as if you make a mistake in the narrow roads, thats it, game over.
Would you be filled with confidence flinging a car around that is totally new, not only aero, but suspension, where set up is still unknown.

An excellent point.

[AR3-GP]

Merc is the one who wrote an apology letter to fans after finishing P4 and P6 in Bahrain...

And?

Ferrari apologised fans in 2020, and 2022.
McLaren did so on several occasions over the last few years.

I didn't know there was some arbitrary definition of critique based on which livery the team has...

The point was you are saying P4/P5 is a great result, but Merc by their own standards were having an existential crisis after getting P4/P6 in Bahrain so it shows your standards are quite a bit lower than that of Mercedes. I'm not impressed with P4/P5 and neither is Merc.

[chrisc90]

I know, I know. But as I said, Monaco is a big outlier and people will have a better idea in 5 days time when there's a proper track to race on and much easier to get the car in a good setup.

I agree. I would say if Merc are threatening for at least 2 podium spots, that would be a massive step. Threatening one on pure pace would be a solid step. Consolidating 4/5/6 would be staying still relative to AM and Ferrari as those teams continue to upgrade their cars.

Tall order to be jumping up 3-5 positions from your average in order to be fighting for 2 spots on the podium - that will be a mighty task and it would be one epic upgrade if that comes off. Fighting for a podium spot with one driver seems a good one to aim for at the minute. Being able to fight with the Ferrari and Alonso in the AMR would be where they need to be if they want to finish on the podium.

Barcelona should give people a good indication of whether the upgrade has brought a few tenths to the car.

[f1jcw]

I know, I know. But as I said, Monaco is a big outlier and people will have a better idea in 5 days time when there's a proper track to race on and much easier to get the car in a good setup.

I agree. I would say if Merc are threatening for at least 2 podium spots, that would be a massive step. Threatening one on pure pace would be a solid step. Consolidating 4/5/6 would be staying still relative to AM and Ferrari as those teams continue to upgrade their cars.

Tall order to be jumping up 3-5 positions from your average in order to be fighting for 2 spots on the podium - that will be a mighty task and it would be one epic upgrade if that comes off. Fighting for a podium spot with one driver seems a good one to aim for at the minute. Being able to fight with the Ferrari and Alonso in the AMR would be where they need to be if they want to finish on the podium.

Barcelona should give people a good indication of whether the upgrade has brought a few tenths to the car.

Beating Ferrari isn't that high of a branch, they are in front with the A spec car.

[ValeVida46]

The point was you are saying P4/P5 is a great result, but Merc by their own standards were having an existential crisis after getting P4/P6 in Bahrain so it shows your standards are quite a bit lower than that of Mercedes. I'm not impressed with P4/P5 and neither is Merc.

No. Read my post again, I said it was good. If they're closing the gap to Aston and increasing the gap to Ferrari, however unimpressed you may be with exalted and unrealistic expectations of what is possible, it is still a good result.
Further, I find it amazing that given the huge gap to 1st and pretty much every statement from a team member saying a challenge to Red Bull is very distant, they must still be held to a higher standard than Ferrari.
Vasseur himself said he expects to challenge Red Bull through the season. Yet looking at the constructors table....it's Mercedes you have issue with?