2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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organic
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
31 May 2023, 04:15
Just_a_fan wrote:
30 May 2023, 22:07
billamend wrote:
30 May 2023, 21:52
I really like Yuki and would like to see him at RedBull over Perez, but Yuki is doing well against De Vries, not the greatest challenge.
The worst thing for a young driver like Yuki would be to put him in the second seat at Red Bull. That's a potentially career-ending "promotion", sadly. That seat should be occupied by an old hand that is just making bank for his retirement as there is little prospect of success other than picking up Max's left overs.
I would love to see Red Bull bring another young talent that is doing so well over the years and more specifically this year, Alonso. :)
There was a possibility at the end of 2020 but that ship has sailed

selvam_e2002
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.

Bill
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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selvam_e2002 wrote:
31 May 2023, 05:17
Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.
yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on

mendis
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Bill wrote:
31 May 2023, 06:31
selvam_e2002 wrote:
31 May 2023, 05:17
Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.
yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on
I have seen a lot of nationalism driven fan following, especially for British, Spanish and Australian drivers. But I haven't necessarily seen a dislike to non Europeans. Fangio and Senna are examples of non Europeans that draw huge fan following. There have been a lot of asian drivers who fell short on talent while they all got opportunities. Zhou is an Asian driver and is currently doing very well and if he improves to consistently beat Bottas, he would probably become an attractive proposition for other teams. While Maldonado was fast, but a reckless driver who didn't seem to control his errors, Perez did well to get to Red Bull. Again, Perez doesn't have the same skills of an Alonso or Max or Lewis or Lando or George. He wouldn't ever garner the same following like that of other illustrious South American drivers like Senna and Fangio, because of his level of talent. If there is a high level of talent, there is bound to be following, regardless of region of origin. In fact, there have been more failed drivers from Europe than from non European regions!

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Stu
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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maxxer wrote:
30 May 2023, 14:18
Helmut Marko not happy with Perez , what will be his replacement?
Somebody that won’t give the whole world a look at the floor each year at the one place the cars have to be lifted from the track!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

Bill
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
31 May 2023, 07:15
Bill wrote:
31 May 2023, 06:31
selvam_e2002 wrote:
31 May 2023, 05:17
Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.
yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on
I have seen a lot of nationalism driven fan following, especially for British, Spanish and Australian drivers. But I haven't necessarily seen a dislike to non Europeans. Fangio and Senna are examples of non Europeans that draw huge fan following. There have been a lot of asian drivers who fell short on talent while they all got opportunities. Zhou is an Asian driver and is currently doing very well and if he improves to consistently beat Bottas, he would probably become an attractive proposition for other teams. While Maldonado was fast, but a reckless driver who didn't seem to control his errors, Perez did well to get to Red Bull. Again, Perez doesn't have the same skills of an Alonso or Max or Lewis or Lando or George. He wouldn't ever garner the same following like that of other illustrious South American drivers like Senna and Fangio, because of his level of talent. If there is a high level of talent, there is bound to be following, regardless of region of origin. In fact, there have been more failed drivers from Europe than from non European regions!
Fair enough

saviour stivala
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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No formula one media in the world beats the British one in total Biase and prejudice with anything to do with formula one.

saviour stivala
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Stu wrote:
31 May 2023, 07:32
maxxer wrote:
30 May 2023, 14:18
Helmut Marko not happy with Perez , what will be his replacement?
Somebody that won’t give the whole world a look at the floor each year at the one place the cars have to be lifted from the track!
So that will include number 44 as well.

purestpurist
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
31 May 2023, 07:15
Bill wrote:
31 May 2023, 06:31
selvam_e2002 wrote:
31 May 2023, 05:17
Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.
yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on
I have seen a lot of nationalism driven fan following, especially for British, Spanish and Australian drivers. But I haven't necessarily seen a dislike to non Europeans. Fangio and Senna are examples of non Europeans that draw huge fan following. There have been a lot of asian drivers who fell short on talent while they all got opportunities. Zhou is an Asian driver and is currently doing very well and if he improves to consistently beat Bottas, he would probably become an attractive proposition for other teams. While Maldonado was fast, but a reckless driver who didn't seem to control his errors, Perez did well to get to Red Bull. Again, Perez doesn't have the same skills of an Alonso or Max or Lewis or Lando or George. He wouldn't ever garner the same following like that of other illustrious South American drivers like Senna and Fangio, because of his level of talent. If there is a high level of talent, there is bound to be following, regardless of region of origin. In fact, there have been more failed drivers from Europe than from non European regions!
In my experience it's much more country-specific than vast regions like Europe or Asia. Mick Schumacher is a great example. German F1 media played up the fact Haas wasn't willing (arguably unable) to provide the resources necessary to develop a young driver and wasn't as tolerant as they should've been of the mistakes you'd expect. English F1 media focused on the fact his last name gave him a leg up on others through the development ladder and argued he wasn't F1 quality to begin with. As ever both sides made good points, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. To bring this back to a Red Bull thread, I've heard European voices who are overly nice and overly critical towards Yuki. My opinion is that his value to the main team is entirely dependent on how they feel about Perez and Riccardio. If Red Bull feels Perez won't be willing to back Verstappen in a title fight (I wouldn't after Brazil last year) and Riccardio can't be his old self with the ground effect cars, I think giving Yuki a chance at the main team would be completely justified, especially since it appears Red Bull has gone from producing an especially difficult car to drive to one that can accommodate both both Max and Sergio's preferences.

That being said, my choice to replace Perez in 2024/5 would be Albon. If he didn't have those incidents with Hamilton, both of which Hamilton was penalized for, he would have achieved the same # of podiums Perez did in 2021 in a much less competitive car and only a few more races. He might not be able to pull off defenses as brilliant as Perez did at Turkey and Abu Dhabi in 2021, but impacting rivals' strategy more often would easily compensate for this.

TimW
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Bill wrote:
31 May 2023, 06:31
selvam_e2002 wrote:
31 May 2023, 05:17
Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.
yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on
So because of their preference for European drivers they let a Mexican driver stay despite not performing any better than two European talents they let go? :?

Bill
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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TimW wrote:
31 May 2023, 08:22
Bill wrote:
31 May 2023, 06:31
selvam_e2002 wrote:
31 May 2023, 05:17
Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.
yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on
So because of their preference for European drivers they let a Mexican driver stay despite not performing any better than two European talents they let go? :?
i was refering to fans,ultimately is the team management who decide driverlineup

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
31 May 2023, 04:15
Just_a_fan wrote:
30 May 2023, 22:07
billamend wrote:
30 May 2023, 21:52
I really like Yuki and would like to see him at RedBull over Perez, but Yuki is doing well against De Vries, not the greatest challenge.
The worst thing for a young driver like Yuki would be to put him in the second seat at Red Bull. That's a potentially career-ending "promotion", sadly. That seat should be occupied by an old hand that is just making bank for his retirement as there is little prospect of success other than picking up Max's left overs.
I would love to see Red Bull bring another young talent that is doing so well over the years and more specifically this year, Alonso. :)
Hah, that would be like throwing a hand grenade in to a chicken coop. :lol: =D>
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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mendis wrote:
31 May 2023, 07:15
Bill wrote:
31 May 2023, 06:31
selvam_e2002 wrote:
31 May 2023, 05:17
Yuki is surviving due to Honda. in 2026 he will be kicked out by RB.
yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on
I have seen a lot of nationalism driven fan following, especially for British, Spanish and Australian drivers. But I haven't necessarily seen a dislike to non Europeans. Fangio and Senna are examples of non Europeans that draw huge fan following. There have been a lot of asian drivers who fell short on talent while they all got opportunities. Zhou is an Asian driver and is currently doing very well and if he improves to consistently beat Bottas, he would probably become an attractive proposition for other teams. While Maldonado was fast, but a reckless driver who didn't seem to control his errors, Perez did well to get to Red Bull. Again, Perez doesn't have the same skills of an Alonso or Max or Lewis or Lando or George. He wouldn't ever garner the same following like that of other illustrious South American drivers like Senna and Fangio, because of his level of talent. If there is a high level of talent, there is bound to be following, regardless of region of origin. In fact, there have been more failed drivers from Europe than from non European regions!
Yikes, I find myself agreeing with you. Miracles do happen! :lol:

It's worth pointing out that F1 is a European-based championship. Yes, it goes around the world but its heart is a European heart. That is going to bleed down through the teams to some degree, as well as colour the perceptions of those looking at it from outside.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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SiLo
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I don't think Yuki has shown enough consistency to be promoted to be honest, and he's quite an angry person as well. He is fast though and I think RB realised that, probably hoping he calms down and matures a little before being promoted.
Felipe Baby!

mendis
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Re: 2023 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
31 May 2023, 10:52
mendis wrote:
31 May 2023, 07:15
Bill wrote:
31 May 2023, 06:31

yes yuki is a honda driver,but one thing i noticed is europeans only want drivers from european decent.those from other countries get ridiculed like pasto maldonado who went on to win a race in a midfield car while underperformance from euro driver's slip under the radar.when perez went to redbull he was 0.6 tenth behind max same as Albon and gasly so no he is nothing special.the cars have changed they are not difficult as those from 2021.if young driver perform well promote him he can either swim or sink that's just the nature of the game,if he underperform in a big team you dont waste time on him u move on
I have seen a lot of nationalism driven fan following, especially for British, Spanish and Australian drivers. But I haven't necessarily seen a dislike to non Europeans. Fangio and Senna are examples of non Europeans that draw huge fan following. There have been a lot of asian drivers who fell short on talent while they all got opportunities. Zhou is an Asian driver and is currently doing very well and if he improves to consistently beat Bottas, he would probably become an attractive proposition for other teams. While Maldonado was fast, but a reckless driver who didn't seem to control his errors, Perez did well to get to Red Bull. Again, Perez doesn't have the same skills of an Alonso or Max or Lewis or Lando or George. He wouldn't ever garner the same following like that of other illustrious South American drivers like Senna and Fangio, because of his level of talent. If there is a high level of talent, there is bound to be following, regardless of region of origin. In fact, there have been more failed drivers from Europe than from non European regions!
Yikes, I find myself agreeing with you. Miracles do happen! :lol:

It's worth pointing out that F1 is a European-based championship. Yes, it goes around the world but its heart is a European heart. That is going to bleed down through the teams to some degree, as well as colour the perceptions of those looking at it from outside.
Mods should see. :lol:

Sometime back I had read that genetics of different races also plays a part in why people of different races excel in different sports. Like black people excel in athletics, caucacians take it naturally to performance swimming whereas you would see asians excel in badminton and ping-pong (table tennis if you like).

Having followed F1 and MotoGP for quite a long time, it also stands out that european caucacians or caucacians of european decent have dominated these sports. Fangio/Senna (not sure if they have any connect with european decent), Lewis so far are an exception to it. There are those flavors which have nothing to do necessarily with discrimination. Cricket is a sport where it's an all round game without any geography or race having performance advantage, despite being from the English origin. There may be more such sports where there is no edge for anyone or to some.