2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[swifteddie1]

While of course this isn’t the “Lando Norris F1 Team” and I’m not an F1 driver at an underperforming team, I think if I were Lando and was being tempted away by other teams the signing of Marshall would make me severely reconsider. Between Marshall, Sanchez, and the new wind tunnel there should be absolutely no reason why the 2025 McLaren should have any of the “undesirable” traits of the last 4 cars from a handling perspective.

I beg to differ - if theres an opening at Redbull/Mercedes for 2023/2024 - i think hes gone. He has been incredibly patient but we are a long way from fighting for wins. The talk from Zak Brown recently was for a competitive second half of the year, fighting for podiums and the occasional win next year. His plan has us fighting for regular wins in 2025. I just dont see that happening.

He isn't gone, because he's contracted to the end of 2025. We've been told there's no release clause. I don't think Zak's predictions are unrealistic. With what's being lined up, the time frame is reasonable. We've just witnessed AMR make a big leap in a matter og months by hiring some top guys, which McLaren is doing. I'd also expect a few trusted lieutenants to come along with Marshall and Sanchez. The wind tunnel coming online, new sim and more up to date manufacturing tools. I actually don't see why anything less should be rhe case.

Driver contracts dont mean much if the driver wants out. Bottom line - if Red Bull or Mercedes come calling they will offer something in exchange and he will be let out of his contract. Hes been patient so i dont think we can fault him for wanting to step into one of the big teams.

Hopefully it doesnt come to that and we prove we can turn things around.

[mwillems]

While of course this isn’t the “Lando Norris F1 Team” and I’m not an F1 driver at an underperforming team, I think if I were Lando and was being tempted away by other teams the signing of Marshall would make me severely reconsider. Between Marshall, Sanchez, and the new wind tunnel there should be absolutely no reason why the 2025 McLaren should have any of the “undesirable” traits of the last 4 cars from a handling perspective.

I beg to differ - if theres an opening at Redbull/Mercedes for 2023/2024 - i think hes gone. He has been incredibly patient but we are a long way from fighting for wins. The talk from Zak Brown recently was for a competitive second half of the year, fighting for podiums and the occasional win next year. His plan has us fighting for regular wins in 2025. I just dont see that happening.

He won't race next to Max, almost certain, it has the potential to end his career and prospects of the "right" big move. I'm sure he'd fancy his chances at Merc or Ferrari though.

[f1rules]

i had that thought also

I know, especially after all that business with Dan Fallows. Maybe they're secretly getting someone from McLaren in return?

I think it largely depends on his contract situation. He joined around the same time with Newey, maybe they're on the same timeline. Newey just signed a new contract, so perhaps Marshall has got very little time left on his contract and of course isn't re-signing.

I am starting wonder if McLaren are in fact going with RedBull - Ford Power Trains for 2026.

[Ground Effect]

i had that thought also

I think it largely depends on his contract situation. He joined around the same time with Newey, maybe they're on the same timeline. Newey just signed a new contract, so perhaps Marshall has got very little time left on his contract and of course isn't re-signing.

I am starting wonder if McLaren are in fact going with RedBull - Ford Power Trains for 2026.

Horner said they won't be ready for customers in 2026, but you never know. What did come to my mind was if there's some under the radar works deal being chased by Zak. Marshall having worked most recently in RBPT could be a valuable asset. I know that's a long shot though.

[MTudor]

6 Month gardening leave and no haggling with Red Bull, it seems far too easy!

I know, especially after all that business with Dan Fallows. Maybe they're secretly getting someone from McLaren in return?

Maybe Key is going to Redbull.

[MTudor]

I apologize if this has been posted before - but this is an interesting article about the 2026 regulations and the pros/cons of being a works team.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... gine-deal/

I know there have been a lot of debate lately with the Aston/Honda deal in here and i think the article sheds some light on why you would want to be a works team. Previously i was of the opinion that one could potentially fight for championships without a works deal but i'm starting to move into the other camp. There is just so much integration that will have to happen, especially with the amount of electrical energy that these new power units will need to produce that i just don't see how you can have aspirations of winning championships without some sort of works deal.

The three teams that are without works deals are essentially Williams/Haas/McLaren.

Its going to be interesting how the next few months go but its already looking like we are starting on the back foot for 2026.

I hope that Chevy comes into F1 and with the tyeings from Indy Mclaren would be the choice to enter F1.

[taperoo2k]

i had that thought also

I am starting wonder if McLaren are in fact going with RedBull - Ford Power Trains for 2026.

Horner said they won't be ready for customers in 2026, but you never know. What did come to my mind was if there's some under the radar works deal being chased by Zak. Marshall having worked most recently in RBPT could be a valuable asset. I know that's a long shot though.

If they are looking for a deal with Redbull power trains or not, Marshall's engineering knowledge (especially how to integrate a 2026 PU into a chassis) will be an advantage for McLaren. I don't think it's a bad thing McLaren could be without a works deal. It just means they have the flexibility to change PU's more easily if the manufacturer they go with produces a dud under the 2026 regulations. If of course they remain a customer team.

Maybe McLaren have a deal in the works with a manufacturer that's yet to throw it's hat into the ring for 2026. I doubt the FIA will limit the 2026-2030 regulations to just the 6 manufacturers who've registered thus far. I don't think it's impossible for a customer team to win titles, it's just a bigger mountain to climb. But it would be somewhat satisfying if McLaren were to do that.

Hopefully with all the signings for 2024, McLaren will hit the ground running.

[Ground Effect]

6 Month gardening leave and no haggling with Red Bull, it seems far too easy!

I know, especially after all that business with Dan Fallows. Maybe they're secretly getting someone from McLaren in return?

Maybe Key is going to Redbull.

Not sure Key would go to Red Bull, except things have changed. It appears he and Newey didn't quite see eye to eye. Newey once said that Key had the tendency to be negative.

[CjC]

I know, especially after all that business with Dan Fallows. Maybe they're secretly getting someone from McLaren in return?

Maybe Key is going to Redbull.

Not sure Key would go to Red Bull, except things have changed. It appears he and Newey didn't quite see eye to eye. Newey once said that Key had the tendency to be negative.

I think Mclaren have the same opinion as Newey now

[mwillems]

I apologize if this has been posted before - but this is an interesting article about the 2026 regulations and the pros/cons of being a works team.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... gine-deal/

I know there have been a lot of debate lately with the Aston/Honda deal in here and i think the article sheds some light on why you would want to be a works team. Previously i was of the opinion that one could potentially fight for championships without a works deal but i'm starting to move into the other camp. There is just so much integration that will have to happen, especially with the amount of electrical energy that these new power units will need to produce that i just don't see how you can have aspirations of winning championships without some sort of works deal.

The three teams that are without works deals are essentially Williams/Haas/McLaren.

Its going to be interesting how the next few months go but its already looking like we are starting on the back foot for 2026.

A couple of points on that really. We did enforce our own Size Zero criteria on Honda and it was silly, it did not work. Ultimately the chassis needed to accomodate the right engine configuration even if it is shaped like a Banana to get 40hp more.

The second point being something I've already said, I do think that being a works team become a benefit only during the transition to new Regs, due the rapidly evolving nature of the PUs and the fact that you do have more information earlier as a works team. That advantage erodes quickly enough once they stabilise and the engines simply evolve bit by bit and the unknowns disappear.


So it isn't that a set of regulations affect the benefits, it is the changeability. Those engines will be given a few years and locked down and inevitably engine budget caps will come in. The engines themselves are the same 1.6l Turbos we have now running on green fuel plus different electronics so whilst being complex from an electronics perspective, the changes are being overestimated I think in terms of how it will go into the chassis or cooling requirements etc. I think that naturally Mike Krack, who just signed a deal with Honda, is going to want to say how great it is for Aston Martin and what prestige there is and how much better they will be. How many times do we hear that schtick?

I do think a works team will have a bit of an advantage in 2026, a bit less in 27 and probably nothing to worry about in 2028.

That's my opinion on the matter anyway and am more than happy to stand corrected by any Tech Boffins.

[Slahinki]

Maybe Key is going to Redbull.

Not sure Key would go to Red Bull, except things have changed. It appears he and Newey didn't quite see eye to eye. Newey once said that Key had the tendency to be negative.

I think Mclaren have the same opinion as Newey now

Yeah, being cautious and negative don't strike me as the best combination of traits for a technical director. No wonder the two cars he was completely responsible for were conservative, to put it mildly.

[mwillems]

Not sure Key would go to Red Bull, except things have changed. It appears he and Newey didn't quite see eye to eye. Newey once said that Key had the tendency to be negative.

I think Mclaren have the same opinion as Newey now

Yeah, being cautious and negative don't strike me as the best combination of traits for a technical director. No wonder the two cars he was completely responsible for were conservative, to put it mildly.

In an interview he also stated in 2022 that they'd seen the ideas on the fastest cars and chosen not to go with them, and that they were kicking themselves for being conservative.

Actually, that's very relevant for the Peter Promdorou conversation and does suggest that perhaps the issue wasn't to do with PP and his teams capability. No idea why it took 1 year for those two conversations to click together...!

[Slahinki]

I apologize if this has been posted before - but this is an interesting article about the 2026 regulations and the pros/cons of being a works team.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... gine-deal/

I know there have been a lot of debate lately with the Aston/Honda deal in here and i think the article sheds some light on why you would want to be a works team. Previously i was of the opinion that one could potentially fight for championships without a works deal but i'm starting to move into the other camp. There is just so much integration that will have to happen, especially with the amount of electrical energy that these new power units will need to produce that i just don't see how you can have aspirations of winning championships without some sort of works deal.

The three teams that are without works deals are essentially Williams/Haas/McLaren.

Its going to be interesting how the next few months go but its already looking like we are starting on the back foot for 2026.

A couple of points on that really. We did enforce our own Size Zero criteria on Honda and it was silly, it did not work. Ultimately the chassis needed to accomodate the right engine configuration even if it is shaped like a Banana to get 40hp more.

A bit surprised you'd bring this up, considering it has been thoroughly debunked at least since 2016 by now, by Hondas own Yusuke Hasegawa no less.

"We have never had a push from McLaren to make the engine squeezed," Hasegawa said. "But last year we had issues with cooling, but that is lack of our experience and we didn’t understand how much size was necessary for the cooling. For this year we modified."

McLaren never forced anything on Honda. At best they asked what Honda would be able to deliver, and Honda replied yes to something they didn't even know themselves if they were able to pull off. It was an enormous failure of communications and part of why Arai was replaced by Hasegawa as project leader at Honda in the first place.

[Slahinki]

I think Mclaren have the same opinion as Newey now

Yeah, being cautious and negative don't strike me as the best combination of traits for a technical director. No wonder the two cars he was completely responsible for were conservative, to put it mildly.

In an interview he also stated in 2022 that they'd seen the ideas on the fastest cars and chosen not to go with them, and that they were kicking themselves for being conservative.

Actually, that's very relevant for the Peter Promdorou conversation and does suggest that perhaps the issue wasn't to do with PP and his teams capability. No idea why it took 1 year for those two conversations to click together...!

Yeah, things make so much sense now!

[mwillems]

I apologize if this has been posted before - but this is an interesting article about the 2026 regulations and the pros/cons of being a works team.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/arti ... gine-deal/

I know there have been a lot of debate lately with the Aston/Honda deal in here and i think the article sheds some light on why you would want to be a works team. Previously i was of the opinion that one could potentially fight for championships without a works deal but i'm starting to move into the other camp. There is just so much integration that will have to happen, especially with the amount of electrical energy that these new power units will need to produce that i just don't see how you can have aspirations of winning championships without some sort of works deal.

The three teams that are without works deals are essentially Williams/Haas/McLaren.

Its going to be interesting how the next few months go but its already looking like we are starting on the back foot for 2026.

A couple of points on that really. We did enforce our own Size Zero criteria on Honda and it was silly, it did not work. Ultimately the chassis needed to accomodate the right engine configuration even if it is shaped like a Banana to get 40hp more.

A bit surprised you'd bring this up, considering it has been thoroughly debunked at least since 2016 by now, by Hondas own Yusuke Hasegawa no less.

"We have never had a push from McLaren to make the engine squeezed," Hasegawa said. "But last year we had issues with cooling, but that is lack of our experience and we didn’t understand how much size was necessary for the cooling. For this year we modified."

McLaren never forced anything on Honda. At best they asked what Honda would be able to deliver, and Honda replied yes to something they didn't even know themselves if they were able to pull off. It was an enormous failure of communications and part of why Arai was replaced by Hasegawa as project leader at Honda in the first place.

Fair play, I stand corrected on Size Zero. But the rest is true, I believe.