2023 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[organic]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferra ... /10476767/

Ferrari poised for Red Bull-style F1 sidepod switch
Ferrari is set to shift its Formula 1 sidepod design towards Red Bull's concept as part of its upgrade package for this weekend's Spanish Grand Prix.

Being picked up by big outlets now. Must be real

[Xyz22]

[SoulPancake13]

Can only hope that the upgrades make the car more consistent in the race. If they could extract the qualy pace into the race they would be a clear second fastest every race...

[Andi76]

And to be honest, I don't know what's better - to be completely off the mark every second or third race, or not to get a single weekend right at all, as is currently the case.

Of course it's better to only be off the mark on occasion like early last year. But the fact remains their setup at that period was excellent - but limited, in the same way it is now. The sample was too small to make a definitive judgment at the time and was largely skewed with excellent pace of Leclerc in Monaco in wet and the way Hard tyre didn't work on any car in Hungary - at the same time Ferrari used it. I was slightly biased believing it was slightly off setup on occasion at the time, since I haven't recently seen such a strong, race-winning car having such a limited working window. So it had be setup! But it wasn't...

However, Miami and Monaco dispelled any doubts - Ferrari doesn't have a handle on tyres enough to compete for Championships. This wasn't the case in 2017-18 at all, so it is in fact something that went downhill during Binotto's tenure.

I did an analysis of the tires last year, so I can't agree with you here about 2022 and the hard tires. Ferrari's dilemma began the moment they put the floor on the car that corresponded to TD039. The tires, and also the hard ones used on several occasions before (I'd have to check at which GPs exactly) worked very well and the degradation was not much worse than Red Bulls. Where later after 8-10 laps the tires broke down and the hard compound no longer worked, before that you could do over 20 laps and the ones on the hard compound were as fast or faster than Red Bull. It was the TD039 that threw both set-up and tires out the window.

[R_Redding]

I did an analysis of the tires last year, so I can't agree with you here about 2022 and the hard tires. Ferrari's dilemma began the moment they put the floor on the car that corresponded to TD039. The tires, and also the hard ones used on several occasions before (I'd have to check at which GPs exactly) worked very well and the degradation was not much worse than Red Bulls. Where later after 8-10 laps the tires broke down and the hard compound no longer worked, before that you could do over 20 laps and the ones on the hard compound were as fast or faster than Red Bull. It was the TD039 that threw both set-up and tires out the window.

This is a quote from Mattia Binotto late last year.

“Even if there have been some obvious interventions that have affected the floors of the cars following the new technical regulations, I am sure that these have not affected the performance of our car. It is not the TD039 that has caused our problems. We already realized in Budapest that something was wrong, a month before the race at Spa.”

“I think we have been penalized by the impressive and fast development with which Red Bull has improved the RB18. We weren’t as good as they were at perfecting the car’s potential”. “This can be clearly understood by looking at the rest of the car as well. Even though the gap at the beginning of the year was quite high, Mercedes managed to make up for the disadvantage, while we remained more or less at the same level”.

[JordanMugen]

This is a quote from Mattia Binotto late last year.

“Even if there have been some obvious interventions that have affected the floors of the cars following the new technical regulations, I am sure that these have not affected the performance of our car. It is not the TD039 that has caused our problems. We already realized in Budapest that something was wrong, a month before the race at Spa.”

If Binotto is speaking truthfully it seems quite the coincidence!

Did the F1-75 concept really not rely in any way on the flexible floor and the F1-75 could be just as fast and consistent without it?!

It doesn't seem to add up with how the car was very fast before and not that fast after (noting Ferrari also turning down their engines too, though), unless I am mistaken. Unless all the difference can be attributed to Red Bull improving?

Ferrari's dilemma began the moment they put the floor on the car that corresponded to TD039. ... It was the TD039 that threw both set-up and tires out the window.

Thanks for the analysis!

It seems that many suppose this, yet it is contradicted by Binotto's comments. How odd!

[organic]

Binotto would say whatever made Ferrari look the best.

He repeatedly talks about there being evidence before td-039 of them being slow but really there isn't. The F1-75 was quick at Hungary until Charles was doomed by the hard tyres. Carlos wasn't very quick that weekend but he does have off-weekends.

Charles Leclerc reflecting on Monaco GP “ Coming into sunday, we just had to bring the car home and take the points. […] there was also a small thing on my car which we have realised and will hopefully bring more performance this weekend”

Maybe a cracked/damaged chassis from his crash at Miami? It would explain how Sainz seemed to have an edge over Charles and how AMR seemed to have more quali performance than Ferrari at Monaco

[Andi76]

I did an analysis of the tires last year, so I can't agree with you here about 2022 and the hard tires. Ferrari's dilemma began the moment they put the floor on the car that corresponded to TD039. The tires, and also the hard ones used on several occasions before (I'd have to check at which GPs exactly) worked very well and the degradation was not much worse than Red Bulls. Where later after 8-10 laps the tires broke down and the hard compound no longer worked, before that you could do over 20 laps and the ones on the hard compound were as fast or faster than Red Bull. It was the TD039 that threw both set-up and tires out the window.

This is a quote from Mattia Binotto late last year.

“Even if there have been some obvious interventions that have affected the floors of the cars following the new technical regulations, I am sure that these have not affected the performance of our car. It is not the TD039 that has caused our problems. We already realized in Budapest that something was wrong, a month before the race at Spa.”

“I think we have been penalized by the impressive and fast development with which Red Bull has improved the RB18. We weren’t as good as they were at perfecting the car’s potential”. “This can be clearly understood by looking at the rest of the car as well. Even though the gap at the beginning of the year was quite high, Mercedes managed to make up for the disadvantage, while we remained more or less at the same level”.

I know what Binotto said. But does anyone really think he is going to stand up and say - Yes. We have been ruined by the TD039 because.... hardly. Fact is - Ferrari brought the underbody modified after TD039 BEFORE Spa. And that's when the problems with tires started and they fell behind. Coincidence? Everyone can believe it. I don't, especially since Ferrari engineers told me that TD039 broke their aero concept.

[organic]

Also let's not forget that td-039 was intended to be brought in at france originally.. so it is entirely feasible that Ferrari had the td-039 floor ready far before spa

[Andi76]

Have played me something, hope you see the sidepod better. Indeed looks like there is no tube left. But also no downwashing sidepods

[Andi76]

Also let's not forget that td-039 was intended to be brought in at france originally.. so it is entirely feasible that Ferrari had the td-039 floor ready far before spa

Ferrari first used the "TD039 Floor" in France indeed. It was reported by several F1 Media (Piola etc.) and i also got this info from Ferrari Engineer last year while doing my analysis. In Germany they say - there the mouse does not bite off a thread. It all started with this floor and the TD039. The tire analysis also speaks for itself. You only have to take a look. Until France and afterwards.Just like the performance. You only need to compare the updates etc., then it becomes clear that Red Bull was already "light" before. So you always come back to the point that something happened in France and Hungary with the F1-75.

[Vanja #66]

I did an analysis of the tires last year, so I can't agree with you here about 2022 and the hard tires. Ferrari's dilemma began the moment they put the floor on the car that corresponded to TD039. The tires, and also the hard ones used on several occasions before (I'd have to check at which GPs exactly) worked very well and the degradation was not much worse than Red Bulls. Where later after 8-10 laps the tires broke down and the hard compound no longer worked, before that you could do over 20 laps and the ones on the hard compound were as fast or faster than Red Bull. It was the TD039 that threw both set-up and tires out the window.

Andi, I was talking about races where there wasn't much temperature shift during the weekend and especially during the race. Imola, Hungary, Japan - F1-75 suffered in varying conditions with different compounds. In Monaco, Charles was insanely fast in the wet and this obscured the problem. In Hungary, the Hard tyre choice in the second part of the race was completely illogical, so no one was even analysing the problem, but the car was much slower than any other on that tyre in those conditions.

Yes, TD was the breaking point and the consequences are still clear - F1-75 was designed and operated in a way that is no longer allowed and SF-23 seems to have been designed with certain compromises that do not work in practice. If the new bodywork is a clear step forward, Binotto's lack of reaction and allowing the TD to pass is an even bigger issue than previously considered. Oldest and most important team in F1 can't be pushed around by other entities in the sport like that, you simply can't allow that to happen. Just imagine if Spygate was ignored and allowed to pass!

[Andi76]

I did an analysis of the tires last year, so I can't agree with you here about 2022 and the hard tires. Ferrari's dilemma began the moment they put the floor on the car that corresponded to TD039. The tires, and also the hard ones used on several occasions before (I'd have to check at which GPs exactly) worked very well and the degradation was not much worse than Red Bulls. Where later after 8-10 laps the tires broke down and the hard compound no longer worked, before that you could do over 20 laps and the ones on the hard compound were as fast or faster than Red Bull. It was the TD039 that threw both set-up and tires out the window.

Andi, I was talking about races where there wasn't much temperature shift during the weekend and especially during the race. Imola, Hungary, Japan - F1-75 suffered in varying conditions with different compounds. In Monaco, Charles was insanely fast in the wet and this obscured the problem. In Hungary, the Hard tyre choice in the second part of the race was completely illogical, so no one was even analysing the problem, but the car was much slower than any other on that tyre in those conditions.

Yes, TD was the breaking point and the consequences are still clear - F1-75 was designed and operated in a way that is no longer allowed and SF-23 seems to have been designed with certain compromises that do not work in practice. If the new bodywork is a clear step forward, Binotto's lack of reaction and allowing the TD to pass is an even bigger issue than previously considered. Oldest and most important team in F1 can't be pushed around by other entities in the sport like that, you simply can't allow that to happen. Just imagine if Spygate was ignored and allowed to pass!

I think my brain is not working properly today. too much work too much stress at the moment. In Imola Red Bull had problems as well (graining) and Hungary and Japan - there the car was already modified after TD039.

But we agree about the TD039 and its effects. Regarding Binotto and the TD39 I have to say - would it have been possible to really do something? The FIA played the safety card, thanks to Mercedes and a Hamilton with a broken back and half a concussion.... and the safety card is carte blanche for the FIA. What would have happened if Binotto had gone against it and resisted and publicly made Hamilton's health a secondary concern? It would have been a feast for the media and Mercedes press machine would have run hot. And in the end, Binotto and Ferrari would have been portrayed as egotistical, irresponsible a-holes who go over dead bodies for Ferrari's success. We know this from 20 years ago... even if it was successful at that time, because the people at that time were of a completely different caliber and had much more influence and support. McLaren's and Williams' propaganda machine went nowhere and Ross was such a clever tactician and strategist that he knew how to turn the tables. Today that is hardly possible. Ferrari no longer has these people, nor does it have the power, influence and backing. These are enjoyed by others. Therefore I think every action of Binotto would have harmed Ferrari even more.

[jambuka]

Wow so many upgrades. Hopium is back. Expecting both Ferrari drivers to be on podium.

[deadhead]

This is more of a general concept change in the hope of it turning out being an upgrade to what they have currently. At least that's the vibe I'm getting from the team.