2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[billamend]

I find the “without Honda IP” very difficult to believe. Wasn’t there some sort of cross licensing agreement done between the two?

No, the licensing was that RBPT could use Honda engines and label as their own, but could not use its IP to build a new one. That would have been the deal of the century, an engine costs billions to design.

The engine is still assembled in Japan and they can't open it.

[mclaren111]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yOwLd6BvH9U


Nice...

[MrGapes]

Additional Article on Upgrade: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... cE_Mh-Xvzc

"The plan is we need to get the car more competitive. We've now released the package which should be available between Austria and Britain, and this is what should take the car to a more competitive level," Stella said.

"Released"? - Meaning to production or what?

[organic]

Additional Article on Upgrade: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... cE_Mh-Xvzc

"Released"? - Meaning to production or what?

Yes sent to production

[AR3-GP]

To put the engine debate at rest:

Quoting article:
When asked about what type of relationship it would like with prospective partners, Team Principal Andreas Stella was keen to point out the importance of being able to influence the power unit design to yield any potential performance benefits.

"You definitely have to monitor that, if making deals for 2026 as a chassis manufacturer like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he told media, including RacingNews365.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations, we know what we want to achieve. This doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having, but we are satisfied that this seems to be something that we will be able to achieve."

Is there a possibility of McLaren doing a similar partnership to Red Bull and Ford, and bringing in another manufacturer to help with a power unit project in future? Stella confirmed the team is currently not assessing such an option: "That's not in discussion at the moment, certainly not in the foreseeable future."

https://racingnews365.com/the-main-fact ... ngine-deal

Thank you. I tried to make this point several pages ago (viewtopic.php?p=1135517&hilit=ferrari#p1135517). This was confirmed when RB against all odds commissioned their own engine, and when Aston Martin ditched Mercedes to take Honda. Why are all of these teams going out of their way if it "doesn't matter". A works engine isn't going to make one a championship winning team on it's own, but it's part of the DNA of almost all F1 teams who have won championships in the last 2 decades. It's a symptom of championship winning teams.

[SmallSoldier]

To put the engine debate at rest:

Quoting article:
When asked about what type of relationship it would like with prospective partners, Team Principal Andreas Stella was keen to point out the importance of being able to influence the power unit design to yield any potential performance benefits.

"You definitely have to monitor that, if making deals for 2026 as a chassis manufacturer like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he told media, including RacingNews365.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations, we know what we want to achieve. This doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having, but we are satisfied that this seems to be something that we will be able to achieve."

Is there a possibility of McLaren doing a similar partnership to Red Bull and Ford, and bringing in another manufacturer to help with a power unit project in future? Stella confirmed the team is currently not assessing such an option: "That's not in discussion at the moment, certainly not in the foreseeable future."

https://racingnews365.com/the-main-fact ... ngine-deal

Thank you. I tried to make this point several pages ago (viewtopic.php?p=1135517&hilit=ferrari#p1135517). This was confirmed when RB against all odds commissioned their own engine, and when Aston Martin ditched Mercedes to take Honda. Why are all of these teams going out of their way if it "doesn't matter". A works engine isn't going to make one a championship winning team on it's own, but it's part of the DNA of almost all F1 teams who have won championships in the last 2 decades. It's a symptom of championship winning teams.

Not necessarily, the symptom of winning teams for the last 2 decades has been the amount of money invested in the team… Not due to a works deal, it is not surprising that the top 3 of the last couple of decades had a budget that was at least double what team #4 was spending… That investment in People, Technology and Equipment is what created success, beyond been a works team or not… The fact that there hasn’t been a “Customer Team” winning Championships in the last couple of decades (if we don’t want to consider Red Bull as one) is because there hasn’t been a customer team that has invested / spent as much or more than the “works” teams.

When Aston Martin starts winning championships, let’s discuss the impact of been a works team… Until then, the fact that they have chosen to ditch Mercedes for Honda doesn’t mean anything yet… And if we are treating them as “strategical geniuses” because they are currently having a very solid season, let’s keep in mind that they are doing so by beating the most successful works team of the last decade been their customers.

[mwillems]

So Stella believes they have the influence they need with regards to the PU. It's not the same as having the information earlier than the works team, but then we don't know if Mercedes will be holding back their 2026 engine plans to give them an advantage. I doubt it to be honest, I expect we will know information as they know it. The car with the 2026 engine won't be developed until early 2025 and I'm certain that by that point Mercedes will have shared their development information with us. I'd imagine the engine will have been on the test bench for some time by that point in fact.

[mwillems]

Additional Article on Upgrade: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mcla ... cE_Mh-Xvzc

"The plan is we need to get the car more competitive. We've now released the package which should be available between Austria and Britain, and this is what should take the car to a more competitive level," Stella said.

"Released"? - Meaning to production or what?

I think it says in the article: "That substantial revamp has now been signed off by the Woking team's design departments and is heading for production, with a planned rollout at either the Austrian or British Grand Prix in July."

However I think it is not either, I think it is both, but time will tell. The plan was to release the upgrade in two stages. From what I see, Stella just has some looser English. If I said to my two kids, here's some sweets to take between you, it means to share between them, i.e. split in half. In this case, probably not exactly half but I think a two stage release of the upgrade.

[mwillems]

Norris in the press conference sounded very positive about the upgrade that is signed off.

I feel optimistic just sitting here at home!

It looks like we could have a good weekend here too.

[mwillems]

To put the engine debate at rest:

Quoting article:
When asked about what type of relationship it would like with prospective partners, Team Principal Andreas Stella was keen to point out the importance of being able to influence the power unit design to yield any potential performance benefits.

"You definitely have to monitor that, if making deals for 2026 as a chassis manufacturer like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he told media, including RacingNews365.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations, we know what we want to achieve. This doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having, but we are satisfied that this seems to be something that we will be able to achieve."

Is there a possibility of McLaren doing a similar partnership to Red Bull and Ford, and bringing in another manufacturer to help with a power unit project in future? Stella confirmed the team is currently not assessing such an option: "That's not in discussion at the moment, certainly not in the foreseeable future."

https://racingnews365.com/the-main-fact ... ngine-deal

Thank you. I tried to make this point several pages ago (viewtopic.php?p=1135517&hilit=ferrari#p1135517). This was confirmed when RB against all odds commissioned their own engine, and when Aston Martin ditched Mercedes to take Honda. Why are all of these teams going out of their way if it "doesn't matter". A works engine isn't going to make one a championship winning team on it's own, but it's part of the DNA of almost all F1 teams who have won championships in the last 2 decades. It's a symptom of championship winning teams.

To me the point seems to be that yes, it certainly was true for all those years that being a works team was very important. But this is a different era and since those rules changed around how customer teams are treated and the budget cap, it is a totally different era that has given power back to customer teams.

[organic]

On the topic of new personnel/structural changes:

Norris: Since the last few changes, there have been a lot of good things coming from that, both in terms of mood, atmosphere but at the same time also performance and things to look forward to in the future. Not everything is purely direct in formula 1 - a lot of things take time [...] definitely things have taken a step forward so I can easily confirm that and I can say it with confidence

[swifteddie1]

Most engine manufacturers have been working on some version of the 2026 power unit for the last 18 months. The specs may not be set in stone but they are well aware of what 80% of the PU will look like. Audi would not have joined if that wasn't the case.

Any new manufacturer that is now attempting to join and expects to be competitive in 2026 or even 2027 is in for a surprise. Only way at this point someone not already part of the 2026 grid is competitive is if all 6 manufacturers make a hash of the regs and that is just not going to happen with the resources/expertise they have at their disposal.

I would love to see Chevy/GM or even Hyundai get involved but at this point i would rather be a customer for 2026/27 with the flexibility to switch in 28 if things don't go well.

GM is already making a turbo V6 for indycar.

Yeah but we are talking fine margins. We've had Turbo V6s in F1 now for some time, but they have been improving for a decade and it required that decade in F1 to get that knowledge and evolution. The regs retain largely the existing V6 Lumps so there is a benefit if you can carry forward the PU. Anyone new coming in is it a disadvantage. Hence the RB deal retains the Honda PU with ford electronics.

I'd love GM to come in, and it's very brave of Audi to come in, but it is a big ask to have that V6 lump working at current F1 levels by 2026, I expect them to be behind for a little while.

Totally agree with you here. Big big ask to come in and compete with the existing manufacturers.

[genarro]

To put the engine debate at rest:

Quoting article:
When asked about what type of relationship it would like with prospective partners, Team Principal Andreas Stella was keen to point out the importance of being able to influence the power unit design to yield any potential performance benefits.

"You definitely have to monitor that, if making deals for 2026 as a chassis manufacturer like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he told media, including RacingNews365.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations, we know what we want to achieve. This doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having, but we are satisfied that this seems to be something that we will be able to achieve."

Is there a possibility of McLaren doing a similar partnership to Red Bull and Ford, and bringing in another manufacturer to help with a power unit project in future? Stella confirmed the team is currently not assessing such an option: "That's not in discussion at the moment, certainly not in the foreseeable future."

https://racingnews365.com/the-main-fact ... ngine-deal

Thank you. I tried to make this point several pages ago (viewtopic.php?p=1135517&hilit=ferrari#p1135517). This was confirmed when RB against all odds commissioned their own engine, and when Aston Martin ditched Mercedes to take Honda. Why are all of these teams going out of their way if it "doesn't matter". A works engine isn't going to make one a championship winning team on it's own, but it's part of the DNA of almost all F1 teams who have won championships in the last 2 decades. It's a symptom of championship winning teams.

Not necessarily, the symptom of winning teams for the last 2 decades has been the amount of money invested in the team… Not due to a works deal, it is not surprising that the top 3 of the last couple of decades had a budget that was at least double what team #4 was spending… That investment in People, Technology and Equipment is what created success, beyond been a works team or not… The fact that there hasn’t been a “Customer Team” winning Championships in the last couple of decades (if we don’t want to consider Red Bull as one) is because there hasn’t been a customer team that has invested / spent as much or more than the “works” teams.

When Aston Martin starts winning championships, let’s discuss the impact of been a works team… Until then, the fact that they have chosen to ditch Mercedes for Honda doesn’t mean anything yet… And if we are treating them as “strategical geniuses” because they are currently having a very solid season, let’s keep in mind that they are doing so by beating the most successful works team of the last decade been their customers.

Spot on about the whole works/customer debate. The Aston Martin team will have a tall order to overcome with their Honda works deal. They got the works deal after just some 5 good races after 2 seasons of cronicaly underperforming. Firstly they will have to develop their own suspension and gearbox (no more 40% Merc parts). They havent done this not once. Will probably be a tall order for a team, eating in their resources and manpower. Then you have Honda who are notoriously moody in their F1 presence.

[mwillems]

To put the engine debate at rest:

Quoting article:
When asked about what type of relationship it would like with prospective partners, Team Principal Andreas Stella was keen to point out the importance of being able to influence the power unit design to yield any potential performance benefits.

"You definitely have to monitor that, if making deals for 2026 as a chassis manufacturer like McLaren, you have enough room for influencing the power unit design so that you are not left behind from a competitiveness point of view," he told media, including RacingNews365.com.

"So this is what we are doing in our conversations, we know what we want to achieve. This doesn't seem to be difficult in the conversations we are having, but we are satisfied that this seems to be something that we will be able to achieve."

Is there a possibility of McLaren doing a similar partnership to Red Bull and Ford, and bringing in another manufacturer to help with a power unit project in future? Stella confirmed the team is currently not assessing such an option: "That's not in discussion at the moment, certainly not in the foreseeable future."

https://racingnews365.com/the-main-fact ... ngine-deal

Thank you. I tried to make this point several pages ago (viewtopic.php?p=1135517&hilit=ferrari#p1135517). This was confirmed when RB against all odds commissioned their own engine, and when Aston Martin ditched Mercedes to take Honda. Why are all of these teams going out of their way if it "doesn't matter". A works engine isn't going to make one a championship winning team on it's own, but it's part of the DNA of almost all F1 teams who have won championships in the last 2 decades. It's a symptom of championship winning teams.

Not necessarily, the symptom of winning teams for the last 2 decades has been the amount of money invested in the team… Not due to a works deal, it is not surprising that the top 3 of the last couple of decades had a budget that was at least double what team #4 was spending… That investment in People, Technology and Equipment is what created success, beyond been a works team or not… The fact that there hasn’t been a “Customer Team” winning Championships in the last couple of decades (if we don’t want to consider Red Bull as one) is because there hasn’t been a customer team that has invested / spent as much or more than the “works” teams.

When Aston Martin starts winning championships, let’s discuss the impact of been a works team… Until then, the fact that they have chosen to ditch Mercedes for Honda doesn’t mean anything yet… And if we are treating them as “strategical geniuses” because they are currently having a very solid season, let’s keep in mind that they are doing so by beating the most successful works team of the last decade been their customers.

Agreed, and put much better than I did!

[MrGapes]

Thank you. I tried to make this point several pages ago (viewtopic.php?p=1135517&hilit=ferrari#p1135517). This was confirmed when RB against all odds commissioned their own engine, and when Aston Martin ditched Mercedes to take Honda. Why are all of these teams going out of their way if it "doesn't matter". A works engine isn't going to make one a championship winning team on it's own, but it's part of the DNA of almost all F1 teams who have won championships in the last 2 decades. It's a symptom of championship winning teams.

Not necessarily, the symptom of winning teams for the last 2 decades has been the amount of money invested in the team… Not due to a works deal, it is not surprising that the top 3 of the last couple of decades had a budget that was at least double what team #4 was spending… That investment in People, Technology and Equipment is what created success, beyond been a works team or not… The fact that there hasn’t been a “Customer Team” winning Championships in the last couple of decades (if we don’t want to consider Red Bull as one) is because there hasn’t been a customer team that has invested / spent as much or more than the “works” teams.

When Aston Martin starts winning championships, let’s discuss the impact of been a works team… Until then, the fact that they have chosen to ditch Mercedes for Honda doesn’t mean anything yet… And if we are treating them as “strategical geniuses” because they are currently having a very solid season, let’s keep in mind that they are doing so by beating the most successful works team of the last decade been their customers.

Agreed, and put much better than I did!

^^^ This is exactly how I feel...well put.