FOTA starts a breakaway series

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gcdugas
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006, 21:48

Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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WhiteBlue wrote:CVC are the majority owner. Bernie retains a small equity share supposedly and there are some shares by past owners which are owned by banks. It is clear that CVC has the control. The important point is that the business is highly leveraged by huge debts. Those schemes only work when there is reasonable safety for future profits that enable payment of interest and reduction of debt. If Bernie decides to give half the profit away (which is probably a minimum of what the FOTA wants) FOA/FOM would immediately loose the securities to most of their debt and go bust.

Of course FOTA are aware of this and the only logical step from their side is to negotiate from this position of strength. They have Bernie more by the bollocks than they have Max Mosley. Thats why Bernie is probably telling Max to stuff it. FOTA have several options. They can push FOA/FOM into receivership and take over the commercial rights for pocket change or use that stick to get concessions and equity transfer. The logical thing that would make it cheap for them is to let FOA/FOM fail and leave the banks saddled with the bad debts.
WB, for once I agree with you. That is exactly what FOTA should do. Play hardball. They owe BCE nothing except a good thrashing. Earlier he was trying to jam his "wins only medal" system down their throats in total disregard for their opinions. Then, when FOM and the FIA were forced to delay for a year due to their own statutes, BCE had the nerve to lie to the media and say incredulously... "I was under the impression that all the teams were for it". So the issue of sound governance extends beyond MM.

Now what I think FOTA should do is make a deal with Williams and Force India that goes like this.... You two teams run year old token cars with Cosworth power in the FIA go-cart series on a budget of $500K/yr. with full FOTA/GPWC livery and we will pay you what the Cosworths cost as team title sponsors. Fulfill the bare minimum of your contract with the FIA. We will not let our engines race in the FIA series and will buy out our contracts for the cost of the contract. Would you like to race real competitors and real cars in the FOTA series or not?

This way if all ten teams of the current grid migrate to a different regime, albeit a self governing one, there will not be a "split"... it will just be a shuffling of the chairs with the whole racing part of the sport intact. This is very important for promotional considerations as it would certainly drive the final nail in the FIA/FOM coffin. BTW, I don't think they would have to follow through on much of this as the FIA series would likely be canceled having no consequential teams.

The same offer could be made to USF1... some FOTA teams could supply them with an old chassis (and I mean just the tub) so they could cob together a skeleton car to fulfill the bare minimum of any obligations they have to the FIA and then do a sweet heart engine deal for them to join the FOTA series.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1

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WhiteBlue
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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http://www.crash.net/f1/news/148762/1/d ... _move.html

There is an interesting twist to the failure of the last minute talks. Crash.net believes that the peace deal was overturned by a requirement from the FIA to sign up for 2 more years. So instead of 2012 which is already covered by existing contracts they would have extended to 2014 inclusive.

The story is plausible but I have my doubts that this idea was hatched by Max Mosley. He may have done Bernies bidding once again. FIA renew their licenses annually and it is really only the commercial side which has an overwhelming interest to tie up FOTA for a longer deal.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

DaveKillens
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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donskar wrote:F1 gets little press here in Houston, but I saw a VERY small piece asserting that the FIA has announced that any FOTA series will be regulated by the FIA.??? Any comments on that.
Max has really twisted this around. I found this article that seems to clarify this position.
If the proposed series comes to fruition, Mosley said he has informed Fota that the FIA would still be the rival championship's ultimate regulator because of a deal struck between it and the European Commission.

"It's absolutely correct, we said that to them,'' Mosley said.

"If they start a new series it would have to run under the sporting code and we would have to give them consent, providing it was safe and fair.''

That was acknowledged by Brawn team principal Ross Brawn.

"You would need a regulatory body,'' Brawn said.

"Ironically, I think the agreement with the European Commission is that the FIA has to offer to do that to any competitive series that wants to set up.

"So, the FIA have to offer to at least be the regulatory body, but they may not be the body that sets the rules. The rules can be determined by some other mechanism.

"If you want, the FIA can run the series for you. They can provide the stewards, the (scrutinisers) and things of that nature. So, that is available if Fota wants to take it up.''
http://english.aljazeera.net/sport/2009 ... 81431.html
Why FOTA really want to spend an uncapped amount of money?
It's true that up to now, there have been certain teams who have spent lavish amounts of money. Despite this, all FOTA team members have agreed that costs need to be lowered. They wish to impliment their own system of timing and methods to control budgets, it just isn't like Max wants. What is disputed is how much, and on what time frame. Max wants it dropped to 40 mil and enforced (audited by people of his own choice) at the start of 2010. FOTA wants their own system of governance (audits) and want this process to be implimented over time, in gradual steps.

Bernie, despite his greed dominating his every moment, is a harsh realist. He knows that if there is a major breakaway from Formula One, he stands to lose a lot of money and his major income stream. When push comes to shove, Bernie can control Max. Witness the sudden reversal of actions and attitude once Bernie stated that every method has to be sought to keep Formula One as it is. Max suddenly lifted his legal proceedings and suddenly became conciliatory.
No one is going to ruin the sweet deal Bernie has going. No one, including Max.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

donskar
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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mcdenife wrote:This is quite interesting. And this, enjoy
Two excellent articles! Thank you!
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

donskar
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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WhiteBlue wrote:http://www.crash.net/f1/news/148762/1/d ... _move.html

There is an interesting twist to the failure of the last minute talks. Crash.net believes that the peace deal was overturned by a requirement from the FIA to sign up for 2 more years. So instead of 2012 which is already covered by existing contracts they would have extended to 2014 inclusive.

The story is plausible but I have my doubts that this idea was hatched by Max Mosley. He may have done Bernies bidding once again. FIA renew their licenses annually and it is really only the commercial side which has an overwhelming interest to tie up FOTA for a longer deal.
A quote from one of the articles for which mcdenife provided links relates to this:
The Mole's sources say that on Wednesday last week, the teams' umbrella group Fota had agreed a compromise with FIA president Max Mosley that would have seen everyone sign up for F1 in 2010.

It appears, though, that when Mosley sent through the documentation the following morning, he had changed the date until which the teams had to commit to F1 from 2012 to 2014.
Absolutely PERFECT!
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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joseff
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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Chaparral wrote:In light of everything that is going on with FOTA and FIA/FOM I found this very amusing hope you all do :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO8TLBn7z1k
LOL @ Alexander Wurz!

monkeyboy1976
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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It's official, Mosely has lost it. ](*,)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76485

Will the FIA members finally stand up to this "loony"?

Scotracer
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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He was just waiting for an excuse to run again.
Powertrain Cooling Engineer

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djos
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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Scotracer wrote:He was just waiting for an excuse to run again.
Max is the worst kind of power hungry egomaniac - he's gotta go!!! :evil:
"In downforce we trust"

donskar
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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In addition to saying he will run again (visions of prune juice) Max included this (from Autosport.com):
"No president of the FIA could allow this to go unanswered...we are also preparing legal proceedings in case these are needed to protect the FIA's rights in its Championship and to discourage any dissident Formula 1 team from engaging in illegal acts."
The F1technical home page says proceedings have been dropped . . . Which statement is most recent? And does it matter? :wtf:

I take this announcement as positive in the sense that it will pull FOTA even more closely together.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

monkeyboy1976
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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Some more rumours:-

Calendar:- http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21598.html

The new Bernie:- http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21600.html

Not so sure about the above. Although a quick check on the website brings up this:-
http://www.imgworld.com/sports/motorsports/default.sps
Notice a familar name?

DaveKillens
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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At this stage in FOTA's progress, it is unlikely that they have any tracks signed up and committed. There is still a possibility that some form of compromise may be reached and Formula One will continue with the names and teams we recognize. I have no doubt that FOTA has formed some kind of working group and that they have contacted tracks in order to set up a deal. But noo deals will be signed until FOTA has passed the point of no return.
From recent outburst from Max, my impression is that he perceives this entire drama as just a power grab exercise by FOTA. He fails to recognize the deep division of communication and agreement that currently exists between FOTA and FIA. FOTA is totally serious, and most fans and observers also realize their comittment and goals. But Max sincerely believes that no matter what FOTA say, that they will all be on the grid at Melbourne in 2010.
That's the problem with people who live just for power. They see the world in that manner, and preceive other's actions only in relation to their own personal power. Understanding and dealing with issues other than personal power is outside their scope of comprehension, and they just fail to know what others are trying to communicate to them.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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There's little doubt in my mind that FOTA has passed the point of no return, where there's simply no way they gonna go back to some compromise, looking like fools.

I seriously think FOTA has all the marbles. And that they are aware of that fact.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

monkeyboy1976
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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You've covered well there Dave.

The next step is tomorrow's WMSC meeting. Autosport has given a good account of the current status:-
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76488

Which ever way it goes (personally I think it's 50/50) I just hope that we get at least one great championship out of it. If it goes the FOTA way then it will be a great shame to potentially lose Williams. And also, it remains to be seen if the teams can work together as well as compete without falling out (personally I think the chances of that are slim as that is the nature of sport).

to xpensive: IMHO FOTA will go back to the FIA if Mosley is not there

andartop
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Re: FOTA starts a breakaway series

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For all their millions' worth of smartass lawyers, couldn't FOTA legally relieve Max off his duties due to his psychological condition?
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft