WEC 2023

[Wouter]

Ferrari

[Xwang]

..., not operations afaik.

Luckily no I would say

[DiogoBrand]

I'm glad Toyota lost. I have nothing against the brand but the only way they've won so far was by racing by themselves for the overall victory. The first time they face competition, even though everyone else came late to the party, they couldn't win. I don't mind if they win another year against some actual competition, but all their wins so far count for nothing in my mind.

[jjn9128]

I'm glad Toyota lost. I have nothing against the brand but the only way they've won so far was by racing by themselves for the overall victory. The first time they face competition, even though everyone else came late to the party, they couldn't win. I don't mind if they win another year against some actual competition, but all their wins so far count for nothing in my mind.

Counter arguement is Toyota kept the WEC going so we can have this hypercar class at all and then they got severely BOP'd so someone else can win.

[beschadigunc]

Counter arguement is Toyota kept the WEC going so we can have this hypercar class at all and then they got severely BOP'd so someone else can win.

Tbh Ferrari was also BOP´d hard

[dialtone]

I'm glad Toyota lost. I have nothing against the brand but the only way they've won so far was by racing by themselves for the overall victory. The first time they face competition, even though everyone else came late to the party, they couldn't win. I don't mind if they win another year against some actual competition, but all their wins so far count for nothing in my mind.

Counter arguement is Toyota kept the WEC going so we can have this hypercar class at all and then they got severely BOP'd so someone else can win.

Nah, that's at minimum a mis-representation of the BoP that happened. Toyota was given 13kg more than Ferrari and 5MJ per stint more than Ferrari. They were out qualified by 0.7s and 1.5s respectively, hardly something that can be accounted for by 13kg, during the race Ferrari's pace was often better by a large margin, #50 was even 1s/lap faster than everyone else, #51 was 0.6s/lap faster even with Hartley, again hardly accountable for by 13kg in extra weight.

#51 Ferrari won despite losing minutes beached (when they were over 1min ahead) to avoid another car accident, then 2 pit stop electronics issues that required the reset of the car, and still won by almost 2 minutes.

#8 Toyota was cutting corners left and right and Kobayashi said they had to put Ryo in the car because Buemi had received too many track limits warnings and Hartley had just done 4 stints pushing quali laps after quali laps and giving it all with a car that was clearly at its limits.

BoP had zero impact on the winner of the race, Ferrari won this fair and square by being utterly superior in any condition and would have won with the old BoP as well. I hope for Toyota's sake they don't spend time thinking the BoP is why they didn't win.

EDIT: I'm also going to add that AF Corse made no mistake whatsoever in race strategy, simply perfect. Whereas, as an example, during the first rain Toyota asked the driver if he wanted to pit and he replied to wait and see what the weather did, so they waited until the SC was gone making them lose over 1 minute, and running in traffic, that they got bailed out by yet another SC, which were abundant at the start.

[AnthonyG]

I'm glad Toyota lost. I have nothing against the brand but the only way they've won so far was by racing by themselves for the overall victory. The first time they face competition, even though everyone else came late to the party, they couldn't win. I don't mind if they win another year against some actual competition, but all their wins so far count for nothing in my mind.

I understand where you're going at, but I also think you forgot how it was when Toyota joined LMP1 with the TS030 and how that car did against "actual competition".

[Spoutnik]

I was at Le Mans and what a race after all these FP session, the tense Hyperpole.
Im glad the #51 cause otherwise I would've lost some money

Key points for me :
- Peugeot : was impressive on raw pace even if both drivers binned it and it started having reliability issue in the morning. It's really impressive the steps they've made. And I have to say this car is quite impressive to see passing through corners, she looks really really low
- Ferrari : AF Corse runned a perfect race. No mistakes from the drivers apart from Guidi last night, I always feel they will win at Le Mans - before the BoP drama - because they had the fastest car by quite a margin since the start of the WEC season. And we saw that in qualy, in race it helps in the traffic, it helped to make the passes the Porsche for example couldn't make at the beginning of the race
Toyota : They TP is quite angry, and they can be angry because in a sense they were let down by the WEC/ACO, despite carrying the category since 2018
The BoP change was logic but "illegal"/or lets say contra legem : the organizers broke their own rule to create racing... it's a debate reminiscent of Abu Dhabi 2021, or Melbourne 2023 in that way Apparently, in private exchange with journalists Toyota threaten of a possible withdrawal from the WEC..
But on the race itself as always with Toyota their drivers are making mistakes under pressure. And I know Hartley couldnt continue/Buemi couldnt have been put in for the last stint but Hirakawa was probably the slowest of the 3, and I feel that was only to put a japanese in the car in case of a victory for them
- Cadillac : For a first time in the fastest category Chip Ganassi did well. Car looked stable and was reliable. The real issue for me, even if the #2 didnt run an absolutely perfect race, is that : can an LMDh really win against an LMH and Im not sure.
- Porsche : Same question. But their car is still unreliable. And it is very difficult to drive, you can see it easily sitting a few minutes on the grandstand, thats what led to many mistakes imo when the Porsche drivers wanted to consistantly do sub 3.29 over a stint. I still don't understand their choice to got for LMDh rather than LMH especially considering their technical background in LMP1

[Avtandil]

I was at Le Mans and what a race after all these FP session, the tense Hyperpole.
Im glad the #51 cause otherwise I would've lost some money

Key points for me :
- Peugeot : was impressive on raw pace even if both drivers binned it and it started having reliability issue in the morning. It's really impressive the steps they've made. And I have to say this car is quite impressive to see passing through corners, she looks really really low
- Ferrari : AF Corse runned a perfect race. No mistakes from the drivers apart from Guidi last night, I always feel they will win at Le Mans - before the BoP drama - because they had the fastest car by quite a margin since the start of the WEC season. And we saw that in qualy, in race it helps in the traffic, it helped to make the passes the Porsche for example couldn't make at the beginning of the race
Toyota : They TP is quite angry, and they can be angry because in a sense they were let down by the WEC/ACO, despite carrying the category since 2018
The BoP change was logic but "illegal"/or lets say contra legem : the organizers broke their own rule to create racing... it's a debate reminiscent of Abu Dhabi 2021, or Melbourne 2023 in that way Apparently, in private exchange with journalists Toyota threaten of a possible withdrawal from the WEC..
But on the race itself as always with Toyota their drivers are making mistakes under pressure. And I know Hartley couldnt continue/Buemi couldnt have been put in for the last stint but Hirakawa was probably the slowest of the 3, and I feel that was only to put a japanese in the car in case of a victory for them
- Cadillac : For a first time in the fastest category Chip Ganassi did well. Car looked stable and was reliable. The real issue for me, even if the #2 didnt run an absolutely perfect race, is that : can an LMDh really win against an LMH and Im not sure.
- Porsche : Same question. But their car is still unreliable. And it is very difficult to drive, you can see it easily sitting a few minutes on the grandstand, thats what led to many mistakes imo when the Porsche drivers wanted to consistantly do sub 3.29 over a stint. I still don't understand their choice to got for LMDh rather than LMH especially considering their technical background in LMP1

Don't really understand this special sense of entitlement from Toyota and their supporters. In any previous years if all of the top manufacturers had folded in the category it would be abolished outright leaving lower class cars to fight it out for the win. Now Toyota were literally gifted half a decade of unchecked dominance and now finally with new manufacturers arriving they are required to do just a tiny bit more and suddenly they are "angry" and "threaten"? They should wake up and smell the coffee. They might still be the biggest cat on the block in terms of money and resources but at the same time nowhere near the popularity level of Ferrari and Porsche. Also, from what I understand WEC Committee has the discretion to amend BOP as necessary even if it has been set for 4 races or what have you. Carrying 14 extra kg over Ferrari with 4 extra hp and bunch more energy per stint doesn't really sound like that much of a handicap, considering the maturity of their platform and the fact it was initially designed to weigh even more than that.

[F1NAC]

Yeeeeees!!! Finally a Ferrari success!!

What. A. Race….

Nearly got a heart attack during last stops..congrats. Madlads. Pier Guidi was a beast during rain

[Spoutnik]

Yeeeeees!!! Finally a Ferrari success!!

What. A. Race….

Nearly got a heart attack during last stops..congrats. Madlads. Pier Guidi was a beast during rain

IIRC its him who put it onto the gravel ? Nervertheless he had a great pace
I was more impressed by Calado's stint during the night, he catch up the Toyota very fast

[Blackout]

What's the deal with all these strange noses (complex nose cone with many steps on the Alpine, big flat surface on the Peugeot, fat and flat leading edge on the Cadillac...) are they meant to make some drag in order to meat the desired drag level?

[Spoutnik]

I was at Le Mans and what a race after all these FP session, the tense Hyperpole.
Im glad the #51 cause otherwise I would've lost some money

Key points for me :
- Peugeot : was impressive on raw pace even if both drivers binned it and it started having reliability issue in the morning. It's really impressive the steps they've made. And I have to say this car is quite impressive to see passing through corners, she looks really really low
- Ferrari : AF Corse runned a perfect race. No mistakes from the drivers apart from Guidi last night, I always feel they will win at Le Mans - before the BoP drama - because they had the fastest car by quite a margin since the start of the WEC season. And we saw that in qualy, in race it helps in the traffic, it helped to make the passes the Porsche for example couldn't make at the beginning of the race
Toyota : They TP is quite angry, and they can be angry because in a sense they were let down by the WEC/ACO, despite carrying the category since 2018
The BoP change was logic but "illegal"/or lets say contra legem : the organizers broke their own rule to create racing... it's a debate reminiscent of Abu Dhabi 2021, or Melbourne 2023 in that way Apparently, in private exchange with journalists Toyota threaten of a possible withdrawal from the WEC..
But on the race itself as always with Toyota their drivers are making mistakes under pressure. And I know Hartley couldnt continue/Buemi couldnt have been put in for the last stint but Hirakawa was probably the slowest of the 3, and I feel that was only to put a japanese in the car in case of a victory for them
- Cadillac : For a first time in the fastest category Chip Ganassi did well. Car looked stable and was reliable. The real issue for me, even if the #2 didnt run an absolutely perfect race, is that : can an LMDh really win against an LMH and Im not sure.
- Porsche : Same question. But their car is still unreliable. And it is very difficult to drive, you can see it easily sitting a few minutes on the grandstand, thats what led to many mistakes imo when the Porsche drivers wanted to consistantly do sub 3.29 over a stint. I still don't understand their choice to got for LMDh rather than LMH especially considering their technical background in LMP1

Don't really understand this special sense of entitlement from Toyota and their supporters. In any previous years if all of the top manufacturers had folded in the category it would be abolished outright leaving lower class cars to fight it out for the win. Now Toyota were literally gifted half a decade of unchecked dominance and now finally with new manufacturers arriving they are required to do just a tiny bit more and suddenly they are "angry" and "threaten"? They should wake up and smell the coffee. They might still be the biggest cat on the block in terms of money and resources but at the same time nowhere near the popularity level of Ferrari and Porsche. Also, from what I understand WEC Committee has the discretion to amend BOP as necessary even if it has been set for 4 races or what have you. Carrying 14 extra kg over Ferrari with 4 extra hp and bunch more energy per stint doesn't really sound like that much of a handicap, considering the maturity of their platform and the fact it was initially designed to weigh even more than that.

I'm not a Toyota supporter, in fact I hoped for everything but a win - again - from Toyota. But that doesn't mean it has to be taken away from them.

You are right, but the Hypercar is what makes Le Mans/WEC popular it's not LMP2

Realistically it's an handicap for tyre deg and brakes deg. Toyota couldn't triple/double stint the tyres like Ferrari.
This BoP change wasn't planned, and wasn't really necessary for the Ferrari imo, the Ferrari from Spa could've won Le Mans imo. The BoP change was necessary for LMDh against LMH

[dialtone]

Toyota quadrupled stinted. Toyota was running generally softer tyres. 10kg don’t make that difference.

They simply needed higher temps and their last couple hours with warmer temps they were close to Ferrari, but not enough.

[Bill]

I was at Le Mans and what a race after all these FP session, the tense Hyperpole.
Im glad the #51 cause otherwise I would've lost some money

Key points for me :
- Peugeot : was impressive on raw pace even if both drivers binned it and it started having reliability issue in the morning. It's really impressive the steps they've made. And I have to say this car is quite impressive to see passing through corners, she looks really really low
- Ferrari : AF Corse runned a perfect race. No mistakes from the drivers apart from Guidi last night, I always feel they will win at Le Mans - before the BoP drama - because they had the fastest car by quite a margin since the start of the WEC season. And we saw that in qualy, in race it helps in the traffic, it helped to make the passes the Porsche for example couldn't make at the beginning of the race
Toyota : They TP is quite angry, and they can be angry because in a sense they were let down by the WEC/ACO, despite carrying the category since 2018
The BoP change was logic but "illegal"/or lets say contra legem : the organizers broke their own rule to create racing... it's a debate reminiscent of Abu Dhabi 2021, or Melbourne 2023 in that way Apparently, in private exchange with journalists Toyota threaten of a possible withdrawal from the WEC..
But on the race itself as always with Toyota their drivers are making mistakes under pressure. And I know Hartley couldnt continue/Buemi couldnt have been put in for the last stint but Hirakawa was probably the slowest of the 3, and I feel that was only to put a japanese in the car in case of a victory for them
- Cadillac : For a first time in the fastest category Chip Ganassi did well. Car looked stable and was reliable. The real issue for me, even if the #2 didnt run an absolutely perfect race, is that : can an LMDh really win against an LMH and Im not sure.
- Porsche : Same question. But their car is still unreliable. And it is very difficult to drive, you can see it easily sitting a few minutes on the grandstand, thats what led to many mistakes imo when the Porsche drivers wanted to consistantly do sub 3.29 over a stint. I still don't understand their choice to got for LMDh rather than LMH especially considering their technical background in LMP1

Don't really understand this special sense of entitlement from Toyota and their supporters. In any previous years if all of the top manufacturers had folded in the category it would be abolished outright leaving lower class cars to fight it out for the win. Now Toyota were literally gifted half a decade of unchecked dominance and now finally with new manufacturers arriving they are required to do just a tiny bit more and suddenly they are "angry" and "threaten"? They should wake up and smell the coffee. They might still be the biggest cat on the block in terms of money and resources but at the same time nowhere near the popularity level of Ferrari and Porsche. Also, from what I understand WEC Committee has the discretion to amend BOP as necessary even if it has been set for 4 races or what have you. Carrying 14 extra kg over Ferrari with 4 extra hp and bunch more energy per stint doesn't really sound like that much of a handicap, considering the maturity of their platform and the fact it was initially designed to weigh even more than that.

you are not gifted anything in motorsport you have to field a car ,deploy big budget ,hire people and assume all risk and reward that come with racing .toyota won all champ on merit last year they beat alpine a big manufacture.same with audi they won all there champ without big competition.Bop is a gift to ferrari it is about handycapping the faster car and helping the slower ones its shameful.it is the european who are ruining motorsport because they think they are entitled to success eg common ecu in moto gp because they could not keep up with the japanese.the next gen pu in f1 have removed everything that make today pu efficient just so to appease the like of porsche and audi.