2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[Ben1980]

I don't know if someone can clarify, @mwillems etc? Stella says although the car will look different, it will be an evolution of current concept and not a change In philosophy. But then why was development stopped months before it was launched? I thought that signalled a recognition that they were on the wrong path and needed to course correct.

I'm guessing, the concept they introduced in Baku, which was the initial starting point (if things had gone as they wanted). So, that's tge concept, and now they work it.

Could be wrong.

[swifteddie1]

With the cost cap, i think it only makes sense for the upgrade package to be an evolution. There was a lot of talk after the Singapore upgrade and the 23 launch about how similar the car was to the Red Bull so an evolution of that philosophy is where i imagine they are headed.

One thing I give the team credit for is being able to identify that the Red Bull path opens up a wider avenue of development. They were one of the first to abandon their initial concept and head down the red bull style downwash path.

It has been suggested the aero team was restricted and didn't have as much creative freedom previously so i'm really interested to see what they come up with for the upgrade package. Hoping it forms a good baseline for 2024.

[mwillems]

I don't know if someone can clarify, @mwillems etc? Stella says although the car will look different, it will be an evolution of current concept and not a change In philosophy. But then why was development stopped months before it was launched? I thought that signalled a recognition that they were on the wrong path and needed to course correct.

It was specifically the floor that was redeveloped. Why just the floor? Not sure. It was a long time to bring a floor to the car. But the path they went down with the floor before was ill judged and they had to roll it back, at that point I think they just needed a floor that worked with the car they had at the time.

I guess it is possible that they then trialled an idea with the floor in Baku and needed data from the track to get the development data that they needed.

Maybe limitations in cologne mean we are always having to put an iteration on track to test.

But to answer the question, a revolution would sound like a change in philosophy.

An evolution could still be an extreme or at lot of work just that it is within the scope of the current philosophy, so the two words don't reflect the amount of change if you think about it like that. Revolution just means a departure from what you had.

If the change in the floor and sidepod is sufficient then they may warrant changes all over the car. Not that these other changes themselves bring time, just so that the whole car works as a package and that the time brought from the primary developments is not lost through poor integration.

Sidepod and floor naturally both interact with the diffuser, beam wing, floor edges, the way the air is pushed around the rear tyres etc... I'm sure there is more to it of course, I'm not technical so I couldn't do more than this technical guesswork.

Edit: The tunnel entrances could also be affected as could the delivery of the airflow from the front wing, so the postions and strength of the vortices from the FW might be adjusted. Or not lol

[Ground Effect]

I don't know if someone can clarify, @mwillems etc? Stella says although the car will look different, it will be an evolution of current concept and not a change In philosophy. But then why was development stopped months before it was launched? I thought that signalled a recognition that they were on the wrong path and needed to course correct.

It was specifically the floor that was redeveloped. Why just the floor? Not sure. It was a long time to bring a floor to the car. But the path they went down with the floor before was ill judged and they had to roll it back, at that point I think they just needed a floor that worked with the car they had at the time.

I guess it is possible that they then trialled an idea with the floor in Baku and needed data from the track to get the development data that they needed.

Maybe limitations in cologne mean we are always having to put an iteration on track to test.

But to answer the question, a revolution would sound like a change in philosophy.

An evolution could still be an extreme or at lot of work just that it is within the scope of the current philosophy, so the two words don't reflect the amount of change if you think about it like that. Revolution just means a departure from what you had.

If the change in the floor and sidepod is sufficient then they may warrant changes all over the car. Not that these other changes themselves bring time, just so that the whole car works as a package and that the time brought from the primary developments is not lost through poor integration.

Sidepod and floor naturally both interact with the diffuser, beam wing, floor edges, the way the air is pushed around the rear tyres etc... I'm sure there is more to it of course, I'm not technical so I couldn't do more than this technical guesswork.

[Mostlyeels]

Bit more background on the Marshall hire. Explains to me why he wanted to switch to another team.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/06/12/mcl ... ll-horner/

Although Marshall has continued to attend races this year, and collected the winners’ trophy for the team at the Australian Grand Prix, Horner said he had been moved into a role outside the F1 operation and was keen to return to one.

“He played a significant role within the team but over recent years he’s moved onto other projects and hasn’t been on the mainstream of Formula 1,” Horner explained. “After 17 years he had an offer, a significant offer, from McLaren. Whilst he still had a period of time left on his contract, he was keen to go back into Formula 1, and so we came to an agreement with him.

[AR3-GP]

Bit more background on the Marshall hire. Explains to me why he wanted to switch to another team.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/06/12/mcl ... ll-horner/

Although Marshall has continued to attend races this year, and collected the winners’ trophy for the team at the Australian Grand Prix, Horner said he had been moved into a role outside the F1 operation and was keen to return to one.

“He played a significant role within the team but over recent years he’s moved onto other projects and hasn’t been on the mainstream of Formula 1,” Horner explained. “After 17 years he had an offer, a significant offer, from McLaren. Whilst he still had a period of time left on his contract, he was keen to go back into Formula 1, and so we came to an agreement with him.

budget cap.

[mwillems]

Bit more background on the Marshall hire. Explains to me why he wanted to switch to another team.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/06/12/mcl ... ll-horner/

Although Marshall has continued to attend races this year, and collected the winners’ trophy for the team at the Australian Grand Prix, Horner said he had been moved into a role outside the F1 operation and was keen to return to one.

“He played a significant role within the team but over recent years he’s moved onto other projects and hasn’t been on the mainstream of Formula 1,” Horner explained. “After 17 years he had an offer, a significant offer, from McLaren. Whilst he still had a period of time left on his contract, he was keen to go back into Formula 1, and so we came to an agreement with him.

budget cap.

Budget cap and he's the one they didn't want to keep on the F1 projects....

[daneferrari]

Bit more background on the Marshall hire. Explains to me why he wanted to switch to another team.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/06/12/mcl ... ll-horner/

Although Marshall has continued to attend races this year, and collected the winners’ trophy for the team at the Australian Grand Prix, Horner said he had been moved into a role outside the F1 operation and was keen to return to one.

“He played a significant role within the team but over recent years he’s moved onto other projects and hasn’t been on the mainstream of Formula 1,” Horner explained. “After 17 years he had an offer, a significant offer, from McLaren. Whilst he still had a period of time left on his contract, he was keen to go back into Formula 1, and so we came to an agreement with him.
It was easy to negotiate with him. Much easier than winning at some 2-dollar casino. He was satisfied, and so were we. By the way, check out this interesting site about 2-dollar casinos - https://betpokies.co.nz/low-deposit-casinos/2-dollar-casinos

They didn't sign Marshall to find out all the secrets of Red Bull? After all, 17 years in the team is a long time.

[mclaren111]

Bit more background on the Marshall hire. Explains to me why he wanted to switch to another team.

https://www.racefans.net/2023/06/12/mcl ... ll-horner/

Although Marshall has continued to attend races this year, and collected the winners’ trophy for the team at the Australian Grand Prix, Horner said he had been moved into a role outside the F1 operation and was keen to return to one.

“He played a significant role within the team but over recent years he’s moved onto other projects and hasn’t been on the mainstream of Formula 1,” Horner explained. “After 17 years he had an offer, a significant offer, from McLaren. Whilst he still had a period of time left on his contract, he was keen to go back into Formula 1, and so we came to an agreement with him.

They didn't sign Marshall to find out all the secrets of Red Bull? After all, 17 years in the team is a long time.

He's been out of RBR F1 team for a while... That's why he's leaving them...

[littlebigcat]

Been out of F1 for a while…yet significant enough to still be going to the races and collecting trophies. Chinny reckon.

[Balalu]

Sounds to me like Horner tried to downplay loosing Marshall.

[Ground Effect]

Sounds to me like Horner tried to downplay loosing Marshall.

That's par for course for Horner, he really went out of his way to paint a picture of Marshall not being involved or even relevant to today's Red Bull, even mentioning a time line.

[CjC]

Sounds to me like Horner tried to downplay loosing Marshall.

Never. Not Christian Horner!

[mwillems]

Sounds to me like Horner tried to downplay loosing Marshall.

Never. Not Christian Horner!

Well I doubt this is not true, it'd be so easy for Marshall to make him look silly, I'm sure he was on the outside of the cap.

Whether he was on the outside of the F1 work altogether is another matter

To be fair it'd be hard to get away with that, and very risky, so I suspect that Marshall probably was working on other areas. Still, doesn't mean he doesn't have knowledge and wasn't giving his opinions on things. That's all we need, someone with an awareness of the things that make them go fast.

[Ground Effect]

McLaren are still light on the senior engineers side. Even with the 3 TD's, you still need effective senior staff that work directly under them. The guys currently there, while probably very good, the team needs senior staff, like head of aero to come from a race winning team. I'm not sure McLaren replaced those guys that left the team.