PikeStance wrote: ↑10 Jun 2023, 17:03
taperoo2k wrote: ↑10 Jun 2023, 16:27
PikeStance wrote: ↑09 Jun 2023, 17:03
This is illogical. The development and manufacturing of a PU are competitive. The goal is to create a competitive PU and limiting it to a preconceived chassis is just a bad idea. Plus, Mercedes Racing recently refine their Chassis so clearly the PU was not created to optimize the aerodynamics of their machine.
Mercedes and Mercedes HPP worked together on the PU and chassis design from the get go, all within the regulations. It's part of why Mercedes were so dominant for before the aero regulations changed. Mercedes had to rework the cooling systems and other parts in order to change the sidepods on the W14. Due to the cost cap they aren't able to change chassis design, so they've had to make some compromises to get the sidepods changed. It's why it took Mercedes months to get the upgrades ready.
Looking at all of the F1 machines, I do not see any compromises due to the PU size which would be the only way a Chassis can be compromised. As an example, the German's BF 109- G6 due to increasing the size of the armaments created two sizable bulges. It was eventually removed in the BF 109- K4. It reduced the speed of the earlier G6 by 9 Kph. As someone who plays Il2 Sturnovik, it is a cumbersome aircraft. But anyway, I do not see any F1 machines that have to make such compromises in design due to the size of the PU. I do not know, but I will assume that there are regulations on the size of the PU.
How you package a PU, alongside the gearbox and transmission is critical to an F1 car's performance. If you've seen an F1 car with it's engine cover off you'll see how tightly it's packaged. Works teams usually work with a PU manufacturer on where to position the mounting points on the PU to best fit within their chassis design. All in aid of finding the optimal centre of gravity and for better weight distribution. Customer teams have to work within those decisions which compromises chassis design and cooling solutions which then has a knock on impact on the design of the side pods and engine cover which impacts the aero. All of this is done within the regulations. If they weren't the FIA would not be pleased.
Yes there are regulations about PU design and sizes. But the manufacturers had a lot of scope on the layout of the turbo for example.
https://hackaday.com/2021/04/06/mercede ... formula-1/
A tech talk episode contradicts what you wrote. In this episode (2021), they broke down each of the manufacturers' engines. The Mercedes engine design resulted in both Mercedes F1 Team and Aston Martin designing a chassis that had a blister or Bulge. If what you say is true, Mercedes HPP would /should have designed an engine that didn't create a blister. It is clear in the discussion that the Mercedes F1 team reacted to the design of the engine rather than being an active part of its design.
I'm aware of the bulge, and the change in designs to accommodate it. Mercedes have a stake in the Mercedes F1 team and they own Mercedes HPP outright. It's probable the Mercedes F1 team had a much earlier heads up on the change in PU design so will have had a much more refined design than Mercedes HPP customer teams. Aston Martin buys a lot of parts from Mercedes, including the gearbox and rear suspension, so they have to work within the constraints of what Mercedes design. As they are moving to Honda in 2026, they have to make their own gearboxes, hence why they are pushing for gearboxes to become a standardised part to save money.
The PU that Mercedes started with in 2014 has evolved since then. It's homologated until 2025, barring reliability upgrades.
I also seriously doubt, McLaren is buying an engine blind without any knowledge of the engine's composition, weight, and mechanism. From what I read, McLaren is interested in continuing with Mercedes engine for 2026. I don't think they would be if they are clueless about vital information for an ideal installation as you seem to suggest above.
McLaren have to design their chassis around the PU so there will be compromises compared to a works team.
It makes sense for McLaren to stick with what they know in terms of continuing with Mercedes, I dare say they'll have an option to switch to another PU manufacturer if a better PU is out there.
McLaren and other customers teams will have the information on how to mount the PU, how to run the PU and what it's limits are. But if there is a problem with the PU that requires a deeper inspection, it's engineers from Mercedes HPP who take over.
Moreover, it is also my understanding that prior to purchasing an F1 team to compete, Mercedes had invested interest in Mclaren. The relationship between Mercedes and McLaren may be better than you give it credit.
The relationship is probably a lot better than it was under Ron Dennis. Mercedes were invested in McLaren but that relationship fell apart. Mercedes decided to go their own way and hence why Brawn GP become Mercedes AMG F1.
