2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[Just_a_fan]

When the driver goes off-the-throttle-pedal the engine throttles are closed, as soon as the throttles to each cylinder are closed the pistons inside those cylinders cannot pump anything out of the exhaust valve as they cannot breathe any air. When pistons cannot breathe any air, and have nothing to push into the turbine, the turbine is as good as useless in regards powering/rotating the MGU-H, which when switched into recovery itself needs power so as to harvest/recover. It will be acting like a brake with the turbine having no power to overtake that brake effect.

The throttle isn't entirely closed when the throttle isn't pressed. If it was, the engine would stall for a lack of any oxygen to burn. Thus, cold pumping still happens.

There's a point here, but I think you've gone the wrong way about it.

It's true that an engine has to "idle" when it's disengaged from the transmission by the clutch.

However, when the car is moving at 300km/h and you take your foot off, there is no "throttle input". the engine doesn't "stall" because it's rotation is being driven by the connection between the wheels and the crankshaft. This is a bit like coasting a manual transmission car in gear. There is no fuel input. Only when you put the clutch in do the revs fall to idle revs and idle fueling.

But there is still air going in and out of the cylinders, that's the point, because the throttle isn't fully closed like an air tight seal.

[Hoffman900]

Throttle blades are not always closed at off throttle.

This is exactly how engine braking (from the PU side is managed) and how all the Superbike teams tune. Less engine braking, the wider the throttle blades stay open and deceleration is tuned with fuel and various levels of throttle opening. In MotoGP they also use an exhaust valve (outlawed in Superbikes). Superbikes also use to run individual throttle shafts for more fine tuning.

Engine braking is a big component of chassis handling at corner entry, and it’s all working in conjunction with the electronic diffs as well. Some of it is down to driver preference, on bikes, a lot of it is rider preference.

Also, with F1, there is consideration for battery charging as well.

[Mattchu]

I`m confused How could an F1 car sit on the grid with the throttle pedal clearly not being pressed/closed yet still tick over, there must be just a very small amount of mixture being input to the cylinders, you even see a small amount of smoke so something surely is being burnt!

[vorticism]

Typically an adjustment screw allows fine tuning of the closed position of the throttle plate; this defines the amount of air slipping past a nearly closed throttle. Not sure what exactly they used in F1 in the NA days, probably something similar. In modern road cars a separate airflow path is controlled when the throttle is closed. These F1 V6 engines likes the V8s before them are controlled by ignition and injection. As seen in the EBD era, you can have WOT without producing engine power, essentially idling at high-RPM. They could probably low speed idle as well with an open throttle via altering ignition timing, fuel quantity, and cylinder cutting. In road cars, BMW's Valvetronic VVT allowed them to omit the throttle plate; granted VVT is disallowed in F1.

[gruntguru]

Many modern cars have a single path to the intake manifold - a drive-by-wire throttle plate. Idling is controlled by the ECU modulating the throttle. It would be entirely possible to close this plate completely if required.

[saviour stivala]

What modern cars ECU does or can do to ICE throttle/s is one thing and What F1 ECU/THROTTLE MAP can do to the F1 ICE throttles is another. In F1 the throttle map does what the rules say - "throttle pedal to-the-floor ICE throttles fully open. Throttle pedal fully off ICE throttles fully closed. Of course the rules provide for, when the engine is runing and the driver goes off-throttle, if and when the engine RPM drops down to idle RPM, throttle map provides for the engine to be kept at idle. Which also means that the engine will also be fueled for idle. This as when driver goes off-throttle, fuel to the engine is also cut-off. But when does the F1 ICE rpm DROPS TO IDLE rpm during a race when driver goes off-throttle?. Apart from this provision, the rules also provides for both an anti-stall as well as for a pit-lane speed limiter setting. When there were no rules governing relationship between ICE throttles and throttle pedal, teams were using maps to power off-throttle blowen floors, ICE throttles were left open when driver went off-throttle pedal, to maintain exhaust flow, and torque and ignition maps alone were used to controll the torque produced.

[Tommy Cookers]

...In F1 the throttle map does what the rules say - "throttle pedal to-the-floor ICE throttles fully open. Throttle pedal fully off ICE throttles fully closed.....

I don't believe the rulebook says that
also - don't we know that throttling is also done upstream of the compressor ?

the map is a map 'for each rpm' of accelerator pedal position vs PU output torque
(not vs throttle plate position - and there is no map involving ICE output torque)
and constant proportionality is not required
(yes monotonicity is required - this just means reversion isn't allowed)

[saviour stivala]

When driver floors the throttle pedal he is demanding maximum torque. And the ICE will deliver that through fully opened ICE throttles. When the driver goes off-throttle he is demanding zero torque. And the ICE will deliver that through fully closed ICE throttles. And as the driver is demanding zero torque when he goes off-throttle, fueling to engine is also cut-off as otherwise it will be wasted fuel. There must be a fixed relationship between the position of the throttle pedal and the engine throttles, and this relationship can only be enforced by the movement of the throttle pedal when operated by the driver. The relationship between throttle pedal and engine throttles must remain fixed while car is in motion. the relationship may alter during idle control, stall prevention, gear changing and car speed limiting.

[wuzak]

...In F1 the throttle map does what the rules say - "throttle pedal to-the-floor ICE throttles fully open. Throttle pedal fully off ICE throttles fully closed.....

I don't believe the rulebook says that
also - don't we know that throttling is also done upstream of the compressor ?

the map is a map 'for each rpm' of accelerator pedal position vs PU output torque
(not vs throttle plate position - and there is no map involving ICE output torque)
and constant proportionality is not required
(yes monotonicity is required - this just means reversion isn't allowed)

The rules talk about the throttle pedal in terms of torque demand.

It need not be linear, but there are limits to how much the torque output can increase with pedal position change.

[saviour stivala]

Maps that involves engine output torque. (1) Engine torque map. In the ECU the engine torque map is used to position the engine throttles to match the driver's torque demand. (Driver demands torque through the throttle pedal). This is a 2-dimension table with engine speed and throttle as inputs and torque as output. This map is defined point-by-point or by ramps at test rig with the fired engine torque meter. (2) The inverse engine torque map. Is calculated by the engine torque map. It is 2-dimensions table with torque and engine speed as input. (3) Driver demand torque map. Represents the torque requested by the driver as a function of engine speed and accelerator pedal position. also 2-dimension map. (4) Throttle pedal map. 1-dimension map. Where the input is normalized throttle pedal position (0 - 100%) and the output as the normalized torque (0 - 100%).

[saviour stivala]

On the F1 V6 turbo engine there is six throttle valves that control the amount pressurized air in the plenum chamber that enters each of the six cylinders. These six throttle valves dictating the amount of air entering each cylinder to produce efficient power. When the throttle valves are closed no air enters the cylinders and the combustion process is temporary suspended. The length of time of this suspended process when the car is on the move, depends on the time the driver stays off-throttle pedal. The throttle valves are controlled via the throttle pedal by the driver, but the demand for power by the driver throttle pedal is sent via a signal to the ECU that then directly controls the exact position of the throttle valves through a map. The throttle valves can go from completely closed to completely open in 10 to 15 milliseconds. The technical rules governing throttles govern the engine torque maps, where the torque produced has to correspond to the position of the torque demanded by the driver through his use of the throttle pedal. At full throttle pedal travel, the throttle valves must be fully open and corresponding level of torque be produced. While at off throttle the torque produced must be zero or less than zero, which translates into closed throttle valves. Without any regulations regulating the relationship between throttle pedal and engine throttle valves, they would most probably not have the need to use engine throttle valves anymore, as torque and ignition maps alone would be used to control torque to driven wheels. Which would than be a very efficient system indeed.

[saviour stivala]

When driver goes off-throttle apart from the effect on turbine, pistons being unable to pump anything through the exhaust. There is another problem, that of the vacuum greeted by the pistons inside the cylinders which can cause the sump oil to bypass the piston rings. Also with no combustion taking place engine braking effect will be greatly reduced. Reduced engine braking effect gives the freedom to define braking baise and with more chose of braking baise comes an advantage in ERS 'K' harvesting (charging) without having to account for engine braking.

[karana]

Saviour, most of what you wrote in your last post seems to be taken almost word for word from the article linked below, which is from 2013 and specifically about the V8.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... throttles/

[saviour stivala]

Saviour, most of what you wrote in your last post seems to be taken almost word for word from the article linked below, which is from 2013 and specifically about the V8.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... throttles/

The gist of this here subject revolves around the relationship between ICE throttles and accelerator pedal and that debacle goes back much further than 2013. The difference is that back than it was not a regulated subject. So manipulations of said relationship, even when in extreme cases leaving the ICE throttles opened 90% when driver goes off-throttle where braking no rules. Now leaving the ICE throttles open 90% when driver lifts on corner entry may seem/sound an exaggerated claim, but in those far of days they were already capable of such management of torque to the driving wheels. As I said elsewhere, If said relationship was not regulated, todays ICE would probably have no ICE throttles.

[gruntguru]

. . . At full throttle pedal travel, the throttle valves must be fully open and corresponding level of torque be produced. . . .

Please post the rule that states this.

It doesn't make sense because the demanded torque is obtained by varying:
- the air supply to the cylinder (by throttling, MGUH control and wastegating)
- the ignition timing
- the charge air temperature