WEC has the right ruleset to help with balance

[dialtone]

There I said it.

I don't think BoP did particularly much at Lemans, but they can run unlimited tests, have budget caps, have strict rulesets for cars and ultimately have BoP, this allows cars to develop and ultimately be leveled by the BoP if they are close enough and willing to catch up. The current state of affairs where teams like Mercedes need to spend a season with sensors in the car to figure it out makes no sense.

People pay hefty prices to go to races and they shouldn't pay to watch tests.

F1 needs to be really worried by next year's WEC field because they have all the parts to create an incredible show and there will be nothing FOM could do then.

[BlueCheetah66]

There I said it.

I don't think BoP did particularly much at Lemans, but they can run unlimited tests, have budget caps, have strict rulesets for cars and ultimately have BoP, this allows cars to develop and ultimately be leveled by the BoP if they are close enough and willing to catch up. The current state of affairs where teams like Mercedes need to spend a season with sensors in the car to figure it out makes no sense.

People pay hefty prices to go to races and they shouldn't pay to watch tests.

F1 needs to be really worried by next year's WEC field because they have all the parts to create an incredible show and there will be nothing FOM could do then.

I don't like the idea of teams going out and designing their own cars, just for the performance to be decided by BoP. Part of the allure of F1 is that it is a glorified design competition for the teams.

Also, as much as wider motorsport fans will mock what F1 lacks compared to other series, they will never challenge F1 in terms of numbers or size.

[clownfish]

I'm not sure I agree with the direct performance adjustment approach for F1, despite liking many series that have it.

I think the wind tunnel/CFD handicap is a good idea but it would be better if it were done by not just the constructors championship position but the points. So if one constructor runs away with it, they get more heavily limited than if they are neck and neck with second place.

[vorticism]

BoP is an expensive way to achieve a spec series.

[dialtone]

BoP is an expensive way to achieve a spec series.

BoP can only bridge small gaps and hardly does anyway because it's applied across the whole grid.

Peugeot was still not competitive except in the rain thanks to their 4wd 130kph electric traction, where they genuinely were faster than the rest. Vanwall and Glick have no money to compete with the top 2, and the top 2 were close enough but never really got balanced between each other but across the field.

All that said, a competitive season is still better than hoping for an accident from the top team because nobody can develop anything with all the limitations.

[AR3-GP]

BoP is an expensive way to achieve a spec series.

BoP can only bridge small gaps and hardly does anyway because it's applied across the whole grid.

Have you ever watched a BMW M3 fight a Ferrari 296? A Bentley continental fighting a Porsche 911?

GT3 racing...

[dialtone]

BoP is an expensive way to achieve a spec series.

BoP can only bridge small gaps and hardly does anyway because it's applied across the whole grid.

Have you ever watched a BMW M3 fight a Ferrari 296? A Bentley continental fighting a Porsche 911?

GT3 racing...

Never applied those bop levels in the last 10+ years in lmp1

[AR3-GP]

BoP can only bridge small gaps and hardly does anyway because it's applied across the whole grid.

Have you ever watched a BMW M3 fight a Ferrari 296? A Bentley continental fighting a Porsche 911?

GT3 racing...

Never applied those bop levels in the last 10+ years in lmp1

Your post said:

BoP can only bridge small gaps a

You can change your opinion on that of course but I think generally, the remark that BOP is a very expensive spec series is quite on the mark. Especially for a bunch of single-seater cars.

The relevance of BOP at Le Mans is that each manufacturer gets to maintain a brand identity with their designs. This point is moot in F1. If you were going to BOP F1, you might as well do spec cars. The BOP at Le Mans is specifically to allow for more brand recognition in the car designs which is something that manufacturers wanted.

[vorticism]

BoP is an expensive way to achieve a spec series.

BoP can only bridge small gaps and hardly does anyway because it's applied across the whole grid.

Peugeot was still not competitive except in the rain thanks to their 4wd 130kph electric traction, where they genuinely were faster than the rest. Vanwall and Glick have no money to compete with the top 2, and the top 2 were close enough but never really got balanced between each other but across the field.

All that said, a competitive season is still better than hoping for an accident from the top team because nobody can develop anything with all the limitations.

The 9X8 might have a good future as a time attack special for Goodwood, the Nordschleife, or Pikes Peak. One positive to these ballast parity systems is they sometimes correlate to the best looking series. The Hypercars look quite good, as did Super GT. Not sure what this says about the logic of it all--I suppose it says that just about any car can be aero optimized enough to compete alongside any other kind of car within a particular performance envelope. With enough BoP we could have Scanias & Ivecos going against Ferraris & Astons & Twingos, just like the morning commute. There is a certain entertainment appeal here--to AR3-GP's point above, it provides familiar looking cars to the viewer. Good for some series.

F1 cars don't need to look like road cars and never did, so there's less sense using BoP in order to introduce brand styling as in Hypercars or Super GT. BoP in F1 could become that by accident although it's primary purpose would be to have the cars bumping tires more often.

What I said before was a bit tongue in cheek. An expensive pseudo spec series is not necessarily a bad thing; making cars with the visual impact of top shelf racers is of course expensive and cars as tech sculpture has its appeal (again, LMP, GT500, DTM, etc.).

[dialtone]

Have you ever watched a BMW M3 fight a Ferrari 296? A Bentley continental fighting a Porsche 911?

GT3 racing...

Never applied those bop levels in the last 10+ years in lmp1

Your post said:

BoP can only bridge small gaps a

You can change your opinion on that of course but I think generally, the remark that BOP is a very expensive spec series is quite on the mark. Especially for a bunch of single-seater cars.

I don't think I've changed my opinion at all. WEC knows they can use BoP to massively change the field but they haven't. Ultimately they don't want to drastically change the results from investments.

Even not discounting this, it won't change my primary argument, i can obviously understand people saying they don't like BoP but, aside from that not being the only difference with f1 (tests is another), nobody here really touched on my points.

[Juzh]

F1 needs to be really worried by next year's WEC field because they have all the parts to create an incredible show and there will be nothing FOM could do then.

The last thing FOM fears is WEC. Literally no one I know knows anything about it, whereas almost everyone knows at least some things about F1.
The only reason casuals know WEC exists is because of le mans and even then no one watches it and only knows about winner in the end if it gets reported in mainstream media.

This thread all in all just a desperate attempt of shoving opinions around because "my team" is currently not performing well. I don't remember anyone calling for outright BOP when mercedes were wiping the floor with everyone.

[dialtone]

F1 needs to be really worried by next year's WEC field because they have all the parts to create an incredible show and there will be nothing FOM could do then.

The last thing FOM fears is WEC. Literally no one I know knows anything about it, whereas almost everyone knows at least some things about F1.
The only reason casuals know WEC exists is because of le mans and even then no one watches it and only knows about winner in the end if it gets reported in mainstream media.

This thread all in all just a desperate attempt of shoving opinions around because "my team" is currently not performing well. I don't remember anyone calling for outright BOP when mercedes were wiping the floor with everyone.

This whole forum is mostly opinions, take a chill pill and relax

[mzivtins]

I would argue that it is SRO GT3 class that has the best ruleset where BOP is applied as it covers the widest amount in terms of cars, teams, countries and championships.

But the idea is the same, WEC is going for LM GT3 next year to get rid of the stupid GTE class (stupid because it was twice as expensive and less common than GT3)

Watching 1 SRO British GT race would be all you need to see what good racing actually looks like, not F1

Other rules that are great if BOP scares f1 fans:

• Mandatory PIT windows

• Mandatory PIT times (Car must remain stationary for x seconds)

• Track limits enforced on a per 60minute or more basis: 4 track limits breaches accumulated over 60 minutes would give you a drive through penalty, each breach is only enforced for 60 minutes.

The last one is great and is needed regardless of opinion, F1 drivers are supposed to be the best, they can even see the front tyres of their car, so it is far easier to keep an f1 car within track limits than it is LMP1, LMP2, GTE, GT3, GT4 but yet f1 get away with it. It is pathetic.

[vorticism]

Toyota called their close Le Mans loss "political" in reference to BoP, fwiw.

This whole forum is mostly opinions, take a chill pill and relax

Except for my posts which are a respite of objective facts. Like and subscribe.

WEC is going for LM GT3 next year to get rid of the stupid GTE class

For example, this is an opinion. The fact is, GT2 Part Two provided us with a mid engine 911. Hence the fact is that, no, it was not stupid. (Fact check: Factual.)

I would argue that it is SRO GT3 class that has the best ruleset where BOP is applied as it covers the widest amount in terms of ... countries...

Haas as WCC... Wait I thought you said this was a good idea.

[dialtone]

Toyota called their close Le Mans loss "political" in reference to BoP, fwiw.

Free world and everything. I might have done the same but...

Facts are:

- both Ferraris finished the race, already hard to do especially first year. Toyota should know better than anyone given 2016.
- 13kg difference aren't why they were half a sec behind per lap most of the race, why they made steategy errors or got warned about track limits, and why they couldn't turn on the tires except in the morning.

Only bop that mattered recently was the 296 between daytona and nurburgring. Most of the time in wec it's just small changes to bring the pack closer without really shacking it up.