2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[ValeVida46]

Where does Mercedes go from here? With all the work they have done under Allison's leadership hasn't really moved the competitive needle forward. Barcelona was always a friendly track that continued to be friendly. Canada was expectedly a difficult task, but it still gave a decent result due to Ferrari's starting behind. Team had admitted that Austria should have been a good track, but that wasn't the case. It could be that a combination of factors like, it was a Sprint weekend and Ferrari and McLaren having found form on this circuit that made it more difficult. Russell wasn't there to be seen with the most quiet weekend since he joined the team. All in all, a write off. Silverstone is another Barcelona type friendly track, which might again make things look good. Ferrari also goes well there. AM and the newly upgraded McLaren remains question marks. If all these teams find form once again, Silverstone might turn to be a difficult one too. That rumored Silverstone better be good to differentiate from these teams even if it doesn't bring them any closer to Red Bull.

McLaren and Ferrari are a phase ahead upgrade wise. Ferrari and McLaren have brought revised sidepod/Bodywork, and a new floor amongst other updates. Mercedes are still running the old floor, much was made about the sidepod update, but these get changed 2 or 3 times in a season by teams (Aston Ferrari and Macca all on 2nd variations of theirs).
I expect to see the new floor with the Silverstone upgrade package, and this will bring them in line with those around them. Hopefully with some positive results

For Austria it was a combination of things. Firstly Macca and Ferrari have clearly made a step with their comprehensive updates(Floor/Sidepod/Wings), and secondly I think Mercedes over-compensated for the DRS train their models predicted by shedding wing and then struggling for traction on entry and exits.
Hamilton mentioned they had to add 1 turn of FW DF every time he pitted as the front wasn't biting and he was washing out in T9 and 10 which share similar characteristics to Barcelona's last corner. The car worked well there and was not up to it in Austria which gives some indication their set up was compromised.

Their traction out of slower corners though is also still mediocre, and unfortunately I don't see that changing this year unless they can revise their rear pick up points, which Shovlin has kinda said they're stuck with.

[dans79]

I swear I feel like I'm on reddit some times with all the negativity, and I'm a pessimistic person to start with.

They screwed up the set-up, for this track because of its unique characteristics.


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -mercedes/

Lewis Hamilton went into detail: "We were forced to run less front wing for the sake of balance because we couldn't get the rear stable." The poor compromise also went to tyre wear in the end.

[AR3-GP]

I swear I feel like I'm on reddit some times with all the negativity, and I'm a pessimistic person to start with.

They screwed up the set-up, for this track because of its unique characteristics.


https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... -mercedes/

Lewis Hamilton went into detail: "We were forced to run less front wing for the sake of balance because we couldn't get the rear stable." The poor compromise also went to tyre wear in the end.

and what about George?

[dans79]

and what about George?

George gave the cooperate pc answer, not sure, need to figure it out, track dependent.........

imo, they got bit in the backside by the limited fp time, and the weather. Once they gave Lewis more front wing, and softer tires, the car was much more stable (I rewatched the entire race via his onboard), but it was far to late to accomplish anything by then. They still need a new floor and diffuser designed to work with it.

[SSScoffee]

How will the new tires affect us, given the already strong front end?

[Mchamilton]

How will the new tires affect us, given the already strong front end?

Pirelli said that the teams comments on the new tyres were generally that they had no affect on the balance

[pursue_one's]

According to an opposing team, It is expected the new Pirelli's will have a stronger front.

https://formu1a.uno/le-nuove-pirelli-ai ... a-ferrari/

[organic]

How will the new tires affect us, given the already strong front end?

The Silverstone upgrade will presumably aim to address the weak rear end.

[zibby43]

JA interview with AMUS seemed to indicate that the Silverstone package is going to be big for Merc.

He also seemed to indicate that the side pods/engine cover of today aren't the final form, and that we'd all be "surprised" when they are out on the car.

Hamilton said he took front wing out today to try and strengthen the rear and get the balance right. This didn't work obviously. I think Merc tried to make the best of --- sandwich from FP1.

Redbull definitely had reserve race pace in Canada, despite the thoughts here to the contrary. I had guessed a half second at least and I can't see how it could be less than that.

I don’t think they had any reserve race pace in Canada. I just think this circuit suited them more and they got the setup right.

The track matters.

Merc thought they would be better here than Canada. You also suggested that a few days ago when we were discussing it.

Toto Wolff said they were several tenths below their projected estimates straightaway on Friday. That’s a large delta. And that certainly carried forward throughout the weekend.

[AR3-GP]

I don’t think they had any reserve race pace in Canada. I just think this circuit suited them more and they got the setup right.

The track matters.

Merc thought they would be better here than Canada. You also suggested that a few days ago when we were discussing it.

Toto Wolff said they were several tenths below their projected estimates straightaway on Friday. That’s a large delta. And that certainly carried forward throughout the weekend.

Several tenths is quite a large oversight. Then again the W13 must have been seconds off their pre-season estimates so we are getting used to Mercedes making incorrect estimates from time to time.

Hamilton said the car feeling was not surprising and similar to the last year. In some regards it’s only been two races since the Monaco upgrade so a larger sample size is needed to understand if Mercedes really know why they are fast. This was a recurring problem last season.

[denyall]

Merc thought they would be better here than Canada. You also suggested that a few days ago when we were discussing it.

Toto Wolff said they were several tenths below their projected estimates straightaway on Friday. That’s a large delta. And that certainly carried forward throughout the weekend.

Several tenths is quite a large oversight. Then again the W13 must have been seconds off their pre-season estimates so we are getting used to Mercedes making incorrect estimates from time to time.

Hamilton said the car feeling was not surprising and similar to the last year. In some regards it’s only been two races since the Monaco upgrade so a larger sample size is needed to understand if Mercedes really know why they are fast. This was a recurring problem last season.

The Monaco update improved the front, giving Ham more confidence in the brakes and turn in. The rear is still a mess.

In Austria they tried balancing the car by taking out front wing and it didn't improve rear performance and made the front move back towards the pre-monaco feeling that Merc had. I don't think Ham is saying the current spec is like the old spec, I think he's saying the car this weekend had the same weaknesses due to setup.

[AR3-GP]

Toto Wolff said they were several tenths below their projected estimates straightaway on Friday. That’s a large delta. And that certainly carried forward throughout the weekend.

Several tenths is quite a large oversight. Then again the W13 must have been seconds off their pre-season estimates so we are getting used to Mercedes making incorrect estimates from time to time.

Hamilton said the car feeling was not surprising and similar to the last year. In some regards it’s only been two races since the Monaco upgrade so a larger sample size is needed to understand if Mercedes really know why they are fast. This was a recurring problem last season.

The Monaco update improved the front, giving Ham more confidence in the brakes and turn in. The rear is still a mess.

In Austria they tried balancing the car by taking out front wing and it didn't improve rear performance and made the front move back towards the pre-monaco feeling that Merc had. I don't think Ham is saying the current spec is like the old spec, I think he's saying the car this weekend had the same weaknesses due to setup.

Did they do the same to Russell’s car? Also, from memory they took the front wing out of Hamilton’s car before the race on Sunday. It wouldn’t explain Friday qualifying and the Sprint day.

Of course I think performance ebbs and flows from track and track and that this circuit most likely didn’t suit them, and they were mistaken that it would.

From what we have seen thus far, when Ferrari is good, Merc is bad. One car has front limitation (Ferrari). The other has rear limitation (Merc).

Merc should be strong in Silverstone. Ferrari less so.

[zibby43]

Toto Wolff said they were several tenths below their projected estimates straightaway on Friday. That’s a large delta. And that certainly carried forward throughout the weekend.

Several tenths is quite a large oversight. Then again the W13 must have been seconds off their pre-season estimates so we are getting used to Mercedes making incorrect estimates from time to time.

Hamilton said the car feeling was not surprising and similar to the last year. In some regards it’s only been two races since the Monaco upgrade so a larger sample size is needed to understand if Mercedes really know why they are fast. This was a recurring problem last season.

The Monaco update improved the front, giving Ham more confidence in the brakes and turn in. The rear is still a mess.

In Austria they tried balancing the car by taking out front wing and it didn't improve rear performance and made the front move back towards the pre-monaco feeling that Merc had. I don't think Ham is saying the current spec is like the old spec, I think he's saying the car this weekend had the same weaknesses due to setup.

Well-articulated.

They also took off front wing to try to preserve the tires. The whole weekend was just a bit messy. Who knows if extra practice time would’ve allowed them to develop a better compromise, but it’s apparent the car’s working window is still too narrow.

Austria, with only seven real “corners,” is a circuit that rewards efficiency and that’s where this current RB shines.

[AR3-GP]

Several tenths is quite a large oversight. Then again the W13 must have been seconds off their pre-season estimates so we are getting used to Mercedes making incorrect estimates from time to time.

Hamilton said the car feeling was not surprising and similar to the last year. In some regards it’s only been two races since the Monaco upgrade so a larger sample size is needed to understand if Mercedes really know why they are fast. This was a recurring problem last season.

The Monaco update improved the front, giving Ham more confidence in the brakes and turn in. The rear is still a mess.

In Austria they tried balancing the car by taking out front wing and it didn't improve rear performance and made the front move back towards the pre-monaco feeling that Merc had. I don't think Ham is saying the current spec is like the old spec, I think he's saying the car this weekend had the same weaknesses due to setup.

Well-articulated.

They also took off front wing to try to preserve the tires. The whole weekend was just a bit messy. Who knows if extra practice time would’ve allowed them to develop a better compromise, but it’s apparent the car’s working window is still too narrow.

Austria, with only seven real “corners,” is a circuit that rewards efficiency and that’s where this current RB shines.

Austria rewards downforce, not efficiency. That’s why RB was so strong here in 2021 and 2021 Mexico with a car that was much draggier than the Merc. That’s also why Merc was so strong in Austria, Brazil, and Mexico last year. Efficiency doesn’t matter at high altitude. Just raw downforce. Last year Merc discovered that the W13 could “work” far above sea level. Interesting, but not practical.

The Merc generally lacks downforce according to the team,so it’s no surprise that they struggled.

[pursue_one's]

According to AMuS, Mercedes engineers are looking at the front section(front wing) for Silverstone.
A promising step forward is expected, at least according to the data in the wind tunnel.
Another upgrade should come just before the summer break at Spa.

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... lverstone/