2023 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, June 30 - July 02

[Sevach]

How did AM know to protest this?

Did they perhaps instruct their drivers (as they would be stuck anyway) to stay well within the lines and would they (premeditated) wait for the race to end first and then ask for the review?

Certainly curious.

[organic]

How did AM know to protest this?

Did they perhaps instruct their drivers (as they would be stuck anyway) to stay well within the lines and would they (premeditated) wait for the race to end first and then ask for the review?

https://i.redd.it/owgspw2lqr9b1.jpg

Certainly curious.

Wow

[Sieper]

Yup, that does nothing to reduce my suspicion.

Sort of fair play to them. But also not.

[RZS10]

As i wrote, even the official live feed was enough to question it - i was in a discord voice chat with a few people during the race and read live commentary in two more discord chats (incl. the F1Technical one) and everyone was just saying/writing "track limits" every now and then up to the point where it was a running gag and in the end the actual (additional) penalties did not fit what the subjective perception of most people was.

All teams also had the observations from their own drivers given to them over the radio.
I'm almost certain that Hamilton only received his penalty that early into the race because Norris was reporting every time he thought LH went off.

There's nothing suspicious about it.

So, during the race itself, race control only had 3 notifications against Ocon (laps 27, 38 and 58).
So during the cool down lap, his team radio with his engineer showed they thought they were safe and Ocon did "a good job managing it".
While in fact, after the protest, he actually had 10 infringements !

He only got to know about his 1st strike (which happened on lap 27) on lap 35 (8 laps after). During this time, he was stuck behind Albon who himself kept going outside the track, so Ocon probably thought he could do it as well, until his engineer notified him on lap 32 that Alton got a black and white flag (Albon himself was only told about his 1st, 2nd, and 3 infringement on lap 31, while his first 4 infringements happened on laps 19, 20 and 25 (x2))

It's entirely possible that Ocon would not have exceeded track limits after the final warning (b/w flag) had he received it for his actual 3rd off track - not informing the drivers on time and then dishing out penalties is kinda pathetic, there's no other word for it, really.

I also do not understand the system by which they handed out the post race penalties, how did 10 offences translate to +5 +10 +5 +10 seconds?

Which part of the regulations determines the penalties for leaving the track?
It's usually +5s for 4 offences, another 3 offences result in +10s ... would another 3 be +15s ?

Why did the usual system during the race suddenly change to

For four infringements, a 5 second time penalty; for five infringements, a 10 second time penalty. Then a “reset” has been allowed due to the excessive number of infringements. The counting of infringements restarts. After another four infringements, a 5 second time penalty will apply; after five, a 10 second time penalty.

If i understand correctly this means 4 offences is +5s and A SINGLE ADDITIONAL ONE already adds +10s, and then it resets because .... (?)

Another thing to note:
Hamilton, Sargeant and Sainz have 6 offences each (see deleted lap document), with the in-race enforcement they got a penalty for the first 4 and then went off 2 more times, 3 would have been needed for the +10s penalty.

However with the post-race review they all got the additional +10s for their 5th offences.

Nyck also just had 6, none of which were noted during the race, he got +5s and +10s which would have been just one +5s in-race.

Yuki is on 9 offences, he got +5s for his first 4, then the +10s for another 3, 9 would not have been sufficient for an additional penalty afaik - but with the reset he still got another +5s penalty.

Albon also has 9 offences, he got one +5s in race and then the +10s post race.

How does that make any sense?

[Edax]

Spikes can be a good deterrent

That would make for an interesting drivers briefing at motor GP.

But you’re right the solution should be in the track not in more or better policing.
I think the main problem is that going over the white line is faster so there is alway the temptation to put the wheel over the white line.

When it rains the drivers are suddenly well capable of avoiding the white lines even though their cars are otherwise all over the place.

So a slippery paint should solve the issue, I can’t imagine that would be that hard to engineer.

[Just_a_fan]

1. The rules were enforced, thats fair.
2. If tomorrow the same race happens again, I bet no one would get a penalty because they driver would just stay on track.
3. Despite it, this things must change, especially on this track, but everywhere. And possible not with a technic gimic.
I would suggest a mobile slippery surface (like astroturf). Of course the simplest thing would be grass or gravel, but it has disadvantages.

It's an easy thing to engineer the track - just form a trough in to which lift out concrete panels can be dropped to cater for the MotoGP crowd. For F1, lift out the panels and fill the trough with gravel (or whatever other impeding mechanism is required). Panels can be moved by the same crane-on-flatbed that is used to pick up and move stranded cars. Easy to do, relatively cheap and covers both car and bike requirements in one system.

[chrisc90]

1. The rules were enforced, thats fair.
2. If tomorrow the same race happens again, I bet no one would get a penalty because they driver would just stay on track.
3. Despite it, this things must change, especially on this track, but everywhere. And possible not with a technic gimic.
I would suggest a mobile slippery surface (like astroturf). Of course the simplest thing would be grass or gravel, but it has disadvantages.

It's an easy thing to engineer the track - just form a trough in to which lift out concrete panels can be dropped to cater for the MotoGP crowd. For F1, lift out the panels and fill the trough with gravel (or whatever other impeding mechanism is required). Panels can be moved by the same crane-on-flatbed that is used to pick up and move stranded cars. Easy to do, relatively cheap and covers both car and bike requirements in one system.

You’d have thought you quoted by post with that idea lol

[organic]

Great minds think alike

[Just_a_fan]

1. The rules were enforced, thats fair.
2. If tomorrow the same race happens again, I bet no one would get a penalty because they driver would just stay on track.
3. Despite it, this things must change, especially on this track, but everywhere. And possible not with a technic gimic.
I would suggest a mobile slippery surface (like astroturf). Of course the simplest thing would be grass or gravel, but it has disadvantages.

It's an easy thing to engineer the track - just form a trough in to which lift out concrete panels can be dropped to cater for the MotoGP crowd. For F1, lift out the panels and fill the trough with gravel (or whatever other impeding mechanism is required). Panels can be moved by the same crane-on-flatbed that is used to pick up and move stranded cars. Easy to do, relatively cheap and covers both car and bike requirements in one system.

You’d have thought you quoted by post with that idea lol

Ha ha. No, I didn't see your post. It's a pretty obvious solution isn't it? If two simple fans like us can see it, you'd think the boffins would too.

[AR3-GP]

Silverstone has astroturf (these are old pictures).

[Big Tea]

I still find it strange drivers can avoid a wall but not a paint mark.

[KimiRai]

I still find it strange drivers can avoid a wall but not a paint mark.

They want to be as fast as possible and a paint mark unlike a wall won't destroy your car unless its wet.

[vorticism]

1. The rules were enforced, thats fair.
2. If tomorrow the same race happens again, I bet no one would get a penalty because they driver would just stay on track.
3. Despite it, this things must change, especially on this track, but everywhere. And possible not with a technic gimic.
I would suggest a mobile slippery surface (like astroturf). Of course the simplest thing would be grass or gravel, but it has disadvantages.

I have a solution no one's suggested yet. Stewards in the car.

[PlatinumZealot]

Tbh, I’m amazed Norris didn’t get a penalty. Onboard was obvious. Was already warned half way through the race, and then locked up allowing Perez through, and then went wide at the last corner twice near the end. Pretty blatant.

Yeah!! I counted four. One after his first flag.

[JordanMugen]

Sort of fair play to them. But also not.

It has to be fair play to them. Why the heck didn't Sainz stay within the lines?! It's silly not to. Alonso stayed within the lines and rightly got the benefit of doing so.