2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[chrisc90]

What were they meant to bring to Silverstone? Was engine covers and a floor wasnt it?

[denyall]

What were they meant to bring to Silverstone? Was engine covers and a floor wasnt it?

That's what I recall. The AMuS report doesn't say those things are off the table for Silverstone, just that the wing is now planned. We'll see Thursday or Friday what gets put in the car.

I'm more interested in the tire situation, the article indicates in theory the new tires will help teams with a strong rear end so might be bad news for Merc if it ends up helping other teams alleviate understear/poor front performance.

Maybe Merc is adjusting the front wing to work better with the new tires in conjunction with floor and engine cover updates?

[zibby43]

The Monaco update improved the front, giving Ham more confidence in the brakes and turn in. The rear is still a mess.

In Austria they tried balancing the car by taking out front wing and it didn't improve rear performance and made the front move back towards the pre-monaco feeling that Merc had. I don't think Ham is saying the current spec is like the old spec, I think he's saying the car this weekend had the same weaknesses due to setup.

Well-articulated.

They also took off front wing to try to preserve the tires. The whole weekend was just a bit messy. Who knows if extra practice time would’ve allowed them to develop a better compromise, but it’s apparent the car’s working window is still too narrow.

Austria, with only seven real “corners,” is a circuit that rewards efficiency and that’s where this current RB shines.

Austria rewards downforce, not efficiency. That’s why RB was so strong here in 2021 and 2021 Mexico with a car that was much draggier than the Merc. That’s also why Merc was so strong in Austria, Brazil, and Mexico last year. Efficiency doesn’t matter at high altitude. Just raw downforce. Last year Merc discovered that the W13 could “work” far above sea level. Interesting, but not practical.

The Merc generally lacks downforce according to the team,so it’s no surprise that they struggled.

Thank you for bolstering my argument.

Downforce and efficiency go hand-in-hand. At a circuit like Austria, the RB’s superior underfloor downforce production (efficient) allow it to smoke everyone through the few corners the circuit has, while still being extremely slippery on the long flat-out sections.

Merc’s only problem is not their rear end. They have to pile on more inefficient downforce to counteract the weak rear (larger rear wings, etc.). They’re more slippery than last year in a straight line, but they were getting gobbled up on the straights by Alpines as recently as this year.

James Allison and Lewis Hamilton both just stated drag as one of their chief remaining problems.

[Bill]

Well-articulated.

They also took off front wing to try to preserve the tires. The whole weekend was just a bit messy. Who knows if extra practice time would’ve allowed them to develop a better compromise, but it’s apparent the car’s working window is still too narrow.

Austria, with only seven real “corners,” is a circuit that rewards efficiency and that’s where this current RB shines.

Austria rewards downforce, not efficiency. That’s why RB was so strong here in 2021 and 2021 Mexico with a car that was much draggier than the Merc. That’s also why Merc was so strong in Austria, Brazil, and Mexico last year. Efficiency doesn’t matter at high altitude. Just raw downforce. Last year Merc discovered that the W13 could “work” far above sea level. Interesting, but not practical.

The Merc generally lacks downforce according to the team,so it’s no surprise that they struggled.

Thank you for bolstering my argument.

Downforce and efficiency go hand-in-hand. At a circuit like Austria, the RB’s superior underfloor downforce production (efficient) allow it to smoke everyone through the few corners the circuit has, while still being extremely slippery on the long flat-out sections.

Merc’s only problem is not their rear end. They have to pile on more inefficient downforce to counteract the weak rear (larger rear wings, etc.). They’re more slippery than last year in a straight line, but they were getting gobbled up on the straights by Alpines as recently as this year.

James Allison and Lewis Hamilton both just stated drag as one of their chief remaining problems.

at high altitude merc small turbo doesn't work well.brazil is not that altitude compared to mexico and austria

[AR3-GP]

Well-articulated.

They also took off front wing to try to preserve the tires. The whole weekend was just a bit messy. Who knows if extra practice time would’ve allowed them to develop a better compromise, but it’s apparent the car’s working window is still too narrow.

Austria, with only seven real “corners,” is a circuit that rewards efficiency and that’s where this current RB shines.

Austria rewards downforce, not efficiency. That’s why RB was so strong here in 2021 and 2021 Mexico with a car that was much draggier than the Merc. That’s also why Merc was so strong in Austria, Brazil, and Mexico last year. Efficiency doesn’t matter at high altitude. Just raw downforce. Last year Merc discovered that the W13 could “work” far above sea level. Interesting, but not practical.

The Merc generally lacks downforce according to the team,so it’s no surprise that they struggled.

Thank you for bolstering my argument.

Downforce and efficiency go hand-in-hand. At a circuit like Austria, the RB’s superior underfloor downforce production (efficient) allow it to smoke everyone through the few corners the circuit has, while still being extremely slippery on the long flat-out sections.

Merc’s only problem is not their rear end. They have to pile on more inefficient downforce to counteract the weak rear (larger rear wings, etc.). They’re more slippery than last year in a straight line, but they were getting gobbled up on the straights by Alpines as recently as this year.

James Allison and Lewis Hamilton both just stated drag as one of their chief remaining problems.

Merc was losing everywhere in Austria. They simply lack downforce.

[chrisc90]

Merc was losing everywhere in Austria. They simply lack downforce.

If they lack downforce, does that mean with the new tyres they might struggle more on the front??

[zibby43]

Austria rewards downforce, not efficiency. That’s why RB was so strong here in 2021 and 2021 Mexico with a car that was much draggier than the Merc. That’s also why Merc was so strong in Austria, Brazil, and Mexico last year. Efficiency doesn’t matter at high altitude. Just raw downforce. Last year Merc discovered that the W13 could “work” far above sea level. Interesting, but not practical.

The Merc generally lacks downforce according to the team,so it’s no surprise that they struggled.

Thank you for bolstering my argument.

Downforce and efficiency go hand-in-hand. At a circuit like Austria, the RB’s superior underfloor downforce production (efficient) allow it to smoke everyone through the few corners the circuit has, while still being extremely slippery on the long flat-out sections.

Merc’s only problem is not their rear end. They have to pile on more inefficient downforce to counteract the weak rear (larger rear wings, etc.). They’re more slippery than last year in a straight line, but they were getting gobbled up on the straights by Alpines as recently as this year.

James Allison and Lewis Hamilton both just stated drag as one of their chief remaining problems.

Merc was losing everywhere in Austria. They simply lack downforce.

That’s just a gross oversimplification of their issues, I’m sorry.

The car excels in medium and high-speed corners. That’s why it is strong in Melbourne, Barcelona, Silverstone, etc. The speed traces show that. You can’t be fast in those types of corners with a general lack of downforce.

It’s the rear end stability/efficient downforce that is an issue for the car. Better floors this year and next year and a rear suspension will next year will have to permanently solve that problem.

[AR3-GP]

Merc was losing everywhere in Austria. They simply lack downforce.

If they lack downforce, does that mean with the new tyres they might struggle more on the front??

Every team “lacks downforce” relative to RB. Some more than others. I don’t think it tells us how they will respond to the new tire. I think that is more related to the inherent balance of the cars. However I suspect the tire will not cure the problems of the front limited cars as some teams are hoping…

If anything, relying on a tire to reverse an inherent aero balance flaw will simply cause more tire wear.

[AR3-GP]

Thank you for bolstering my argument.

Downforce and efficiency go hand-in-hand. At a circuit like Austria, the RB’s superior underfloor downforce production (efficient) allow it to smoke everyone through the few corners the circuit has, while still being extremely slippery on the long flat-out sections.

Merc’s only problem is not their rear end. They have to pile on more inefficient downforce to counteract the weak rear (larger rear wings, etc.). They’re more slippery than last year in a straight line, but they were getting gobbled up on the straights by Alpines as recently as this year.

James Allison and Lewis Hamilton both just stated drag as one of their chief remaining problems.

Merc was losing everywhere in Austria. They simply lack downforce.

That’s just a gross oversimplification of their issues, I’m sorry.

The car excels in medium and high-speed corners. That’s why it is strong in Melbourne, Barcelona, Silverstone, etc. The speed traces show that. You can’t be fast in those types of corners with a general lack of downforce.

It’s the rear end stability/efficient downforce that is an issue for the car. Better floors this year and next year and a rear suspension will next year will have to permanently solve that problem.

I’m speaking in absolute terms. The cars that are behind RB lack downforce. Some of them have more downforce than others (like Merc who is P2 in the WCC having much more than Williams) but they are lacking relative to the 1st place team.

[zibby43]

Merc was losing everywhere in Austria. They simply lack downforce.

That’s just a gross oversimplification of their issues, I’m sorry.

The car excels in medium and high-speed corners. That’s why it is strong in Melbourne, Barcelona, Silverstone, etc. The speed traces show that. You can’t be fast in those types of corners with a general lack of downforce.

It’s the rear end stability/efficient downforce that is an issue for the car. Better floors this year and next year and a rear suspension will next year will have to permanently solve that problem.

I’m speaking in absolute terms. The cars that are behind RB lack downforce. Some of them have more downforce than others (like Merc who is P2 in the WCC having much more than Williams) but they are lacking relative to the 1st place team.

This analysis is contrary to what you set out about the car suffering everywhere in Austria.

[AR3-GP]

They missed something in his contract...

[pursue_one's]

Mercedes confirm new front wing for Silverstone.

[Luscion]

I assume that's in addition to the floor, body cover and sidepod updates?

[Cs98]

I assume that's in addition to the floor, body cover and sidepod updates?

In addition? You think they have new sidepods again after 4 races? Or you mean the ones they brought in Monaco?

[chrisc90]

I assume that's in addition to the floor, body cover and sidepod updates?

In addition? You think they have new sidepods again after 4 races? Or you mean the ones they brought in Monaco?

It was always the plan to bring a big update to Silverstone. Sidepods and floor at least. Seems to have been pushed back.