2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Luscion]

Did he say develop the car for Lewis @ 1min 39?

Surely the main objective is the make the car fast, not develop it towards one driver.

Lewis pretty much said the car is bad. So if they are, they arent doing a decent job of it.

Ultimately, every driver on a basic level wants the same thing. Less drag and more downforce...get that and youre golden. Right now, they havent done either

yea, the biggest problem with their car is it stepping out on them all the time, they seem to have it worse than quite a few teams, very surprised they didnt bring anything to silverstone to address it, but maybe they thought since its a more front limited track it wouldnt affect them as much

[f1jcw]

Did he say develop the car for Lewis @ 1min 39?

Surely the main objective is the make the car fast, not develop it towards one driver.

And if Redbull develop towards Max and not Perez, I assume you would think that was untoward.

[organic]

Did he say develop the car for Lewis @ 1min 39?

Surely the main objective is the make the car fast, not develop it towards one driver.

And if Redbull develop towards Max and not Perez, I assume you would think that was untoward.

Merc usually state that there is no lead driver and treat them equally, whereas there's none of that pretence at RB. That's why people find it interesting when the "mask slips" in instances such as this, whereas if Horner said it about Max it'd be intriguing but expected

I didn't expect them to be developing the car towards one driver or the other at Merc.. I suspect George prefers certain characteristics and Lewis others, and they're working towards correcting the faults that Lewis currently sees, rather than just favouring Hamilton outright. This would make complete sense as:

- Hamilton has had far more experience in good cars, so should have more insight into what should be done to improve the car
- The team have a more robust and trusting relationship with Ham
- Russell has looked comparatively better against Hamilton when the car has been worse, so feedback that Russell is giving may not be targeted towards the car's fundamental flaws and rather potentially towards things that may suit just his driving style (especially if they've already tried going down a development direction driven by George's feedback)

[PlatinumZealot]

Russell reminding me of Button again...
But I'm still more concerned that the car doesn't excel at anything in particular.

[AR3-GP]

Did he say develop the car for Lewis @ 1min 39?

Surely the main objective is the make the car fast, not develop it towards one driver.

And if Redbull develop towards Max and not Perez, I assume you would think that was untoward.

Merc usually state that there is no lead driver and treat them equally, whereas there's none of that pretence at RB. That's why people find it interesting when the "mask slips" in instances such as this, whereas if Horner said it about Max it'd be intriguing but expected

I didn't expect them to be developing the car towards one driver or the other at Merc.. I suspect George prefers certain characteristics and Lewis others, and they're working towards correcting the faults that Lewis currently sees, rather than just favouring Hamilton outright. This would make complete sense as:

- Hamilton has had far more experience in good cars, so should have more insight into what should be done to improve the car
- The team have a more robust and trusting relationship with Ham
- Russell has looked comparatively better against Hamilton when the car has been worse, so feedback that Russell is giving may not be targeted towards the car's fundamental flaws and rather potentially towards things that may suit just his driving style (especially if they've already tried going down a development direction driven by George's feedback)

The other side of the coin is that Merc are protecting George's confidence by suggesting that the Monaco upgrade doesn't suit him and is the explanation for his loss of pace relative to Hamilton.

Last year Mercedes was protecting Hamilton in the same way when he was trailing George. We were told many things like seating position and a disproportionate number of experiments (which George denied).


The truth of the matter is that you have to get on with the car you are given. George handled it really well last year and beginning of this year while Hamilton did not. Post Monaco, Hamilton is dealing with the car well, and George is not.

In theory both drivers need to "get on with it" at all times. One must remain adaptable. They are being paid millions to do so. There cannot be excuses for either driver.

[j_ste]

And if Redbull develop towards Max and not Perez, I assume you would think that was untoward.

Merc usually state that there is no lead driver and treat them equally, whereas there's none of that pretence at RB. That's why people find it interesting when the "mask slips" in instances such as this, whereas if Horner said it about Max it'd be intriguing but expected

I didn't expect them to be developing the car towards one driver or the other at Merc.. I suspect George prefers certain characteristics and Lewis others, and they're working towards correcting the faults that Lewis currently sees, rather than just favouring Hamilton outright. This would make complete sense as:

- Hamilton has had far more experience in good cars, so should have more insight into what should be done to improve the car
- The team have a more robust and trusting relationship with Ham
- Russell has looked comparatively better against Hamilton when the car has been worse, so feedback that Russell is giving may not be targeted towards the car's fundamental flaws and rather potentially towards things that may suit just his driving style (especially if they've already tried going down a development direction driven by George's feedback)

The other side of the coin is that Merc are protecting George's confidence by suggesting that the Monaco upgrade doesn't suit him and is the explanation for his loss of pace relative to Hamilton.

Last year Mercedes was protecting Hamilton in the same way when he was trailing George. We were told many things like seating position and a disproportionate number of experiments (which George denied).


The truth of the matter is that you have to get on with the car you are given. George handled it really well last year and beginning of this year while Hamilton did not. Post Monaco, Hamilton is dealing with the car well, and George is not.

In theory both drivers need to "get on with it" at all times. One must remain adaptable. They are being paid millions to do so. There cannot be excuses for either driver.

But there is an excuse. One glaring excuse that both drivers can use...damn, they are 2nd in WCC. Lets not act like either of them arent pulling their weight. Both have been let down.

[AR3-GP]

But there is an excuse. One glaring excuse that both drivers can use...damn, they are 2nd in WCC. Lets not act like either of them arent pulling their weight. Both have been let down.

For sure, the Merc is not a championship caliber car but that's not what I was referring to. What I meant is that anytime one driver is slower than the other one, there is always a creative explanation as to why. These reasonings may seem plausible on the face of it, but will one Mercedes driver ever be allowed to beat the other on merit? It seems when one has the upper hand, excuses are made for the other. When Merc say that the Monaco upgrade suits Hamilton more, it undermines Hamilton. When Merc say the old package suited George more, it undermines George.

I rather think it's much simpler to credit one driver for doing a better job with what he has been given and let that be the end of it. Otherwise you teach people to entertain excuses rather than appreciating each driver when he does well with what he has been given.

[Willy]

Can one conclude that the car is being "upgraded" to make it drivable for one driver, than the overall performance is being improved? I draw this conclusion on the fact that Red Bull hasn't put any upgrades which becomes a good reference for the upgrades that others are introducing to see if they are making progress. So far, it doesn't appear as if Mercedes has relatively improved. More a case of car moving from one driver to another. Only Ferrari seem to have jumped both Aston Martin and Mercedes, while Aston has gone backwards.

[cplchanb]

Well... let's see what mick can do overnight. He has his father's work ethic so the sim team will be working hard to dial the car in. They will most likely still make q3 tmrrw and their med pace wasn't bad.

[mstar]

Didn't last year Mike elliot say (I am.struggling to find the quote as it was live on sky with ted), when the car was bad in first couple of races, ted said George seems to be quicker with the zero concept (but slow vs others), Mike eluded that even though George doesn't feel the car bad characteristics as lewis they still slow. So they using lewis experience and feedback to understand WHY they slow. I took from this Mike saying George is quicker than lewis in the bad car but slower than other cars, but lewis is pinpointing why its slower so they listening and using his experience why they slower (e.g rear end instability under braking etc, while Russell had no such issues and maybe can live with it but in reality there is some issue, and 1 thing why they slower over a lap)

[mstar]

Well... let's see what mick can do overnight. He has his father's work ethic so the sim team will be working hard to dial the car in. They will most likely still make q3 tmrrw and their med pace wasn't bad.

Let's hope but makes you wonder how redbulls set up correlation is so good they hardly have issues of major set up changes. I don't think mick can do much it seems 1 second away in qualy trim and you can't make up that time on pure set up.

[mkay]

And if Redbull develop towards Max and not Perez, I assume you would think that was untoward.

Merc usually state that there is no lead driver and treat them equally, whereas there's none of that pretence at RB. That's why people find it interesting when the "mask slips" in instances such as this, whereas if Horner said it about Max it'd be intriguing but expected

I didn't expect them to be developing the car towards one driver or the other at Merc.. I suspect George prefers certain characteristics and Lewis others, and they're working towards correcting the faults that Lewis currently sees, rather than just favouring Hamilton outright. This would make complete sense as:

- Hamilton has had far more experience in good cars, so should have more insight into what should be done to improve the car
- The team have a more robust and trusting relationship with Ham
- Russell has looked comparatively better against Hamilton when the car has been worse, so feedback that Russell is giving may not be targeted towards the car's fundamental flaws and rather potentially towards things that may suit just his driving style (especially if they've already tried going down a development direction driven by George's feedback)

The other side of the coin is that Merc are protecting George's confidence by suggesting that the Monaco upgrade doesn't suit him and is the explanation for his loss of pace relative to Hamilton.

Last year Mercedes was protecting Hamilton in the same way when he was trailing George. We were told many things like seating position and a disproportionate number of experiments (which George denied).


The truth of the matter is that you have to get on with the car you are given. George handled it really well last year and beginning of this year while Hamilton did not. Post Monaco, Hamilton is dealing with the car well, and George is not.

In theory both drivers need to "get on with it" at all times. One must remain adaptable. They are being paid millions to do so. There cannot be excuses for either driver.

We literally have evidence of Lewis being Mercedes’ guinea pig for half a season. From driver to team principal interviews.

The moment they decided to stop those, he started to outperform Russell and won the qualifying H2H and pretty much tied the race finish H2H (despite 3 adverse SC/VSC which hugely benefitted Russell).

So no Mercedes wasn’t protecting Hamilton.

[AR3-GP]

Merc usually state that there is no lead driver and treat them equally, whereas there's none of that pretence at RB. That's why people find it interesting when the "mask slips" in instances such as this, whereas if Horner said it about Max it'd be intriguing but expected

I didn't expect them to be developing the car towards one driver or the other at Merc.. I suspect George prefers certain characteristics and Lewis others, and they're working towards correcting the faults that Lewis currently sees, rather than just favouring Hamilton outright. This would make complete sense as:

- Hamilton has had far more experience in good cars, so should have more insight into what should be done to improve the car
- The team have a more robust and trusting relationship with Ham
- Russell has looked comparatively better against Hamilton when the car has been worse, so feedback that Russell is giving may not be targeted towards the car's fundamental flaws and rather potentially towards things that may suit just his driving style (especially if they've already tried going down a development direction driven by George's feedback)

The other side of the coin is that Merc are protecting George's confidence by suggesting that the Monaco upgrade doesn't suit him and is the explanation for his loss of pace relative to Hamilton.

Last year Mercedes was protecting Hamilton in the same way when he was trailing George. We were told many things like seating position and a disproportionate number of experiments (which George denied).


The truth of the matter is that you have to get on with the car you are given. George handled it really well last year and beginning of this year while Hamilton did not. Post Monaco, Hamilton is dealing with the car well, and George is not.

In theory both drivers need to "get on with it" at all times. One must remain adaptable. They are being paid millions to do so. There cannot be excuses for either driver.

We literally have evidence of Lewis being Mercedes’ guinea pig for half a season. From driver to team principal interviews.

The moment they decided to stop those, he started to outperform Russell and won the qualifying H2H and pretty much tied the race finish H2H (despite 3 adverse SC/VSC which hugely benefitted Russell).

So no Mercedes wasn’t protecting Hamilton.

George denied this.

[cplchanb]

Well... let's see what mick can do overnight. He has his father's work ethic so the sim team will be working hard to dial the car in. They will most likely still make q3 tmrrw and their med pace wasn't bad.

Let's hope but makes you wonder how redbulls set up correlation is so good they hardly have issues of major set up changes. I don't think mick can do much it seems 1 second away in qualy trim and you can't make up that time on pure set up.

Well they had 1 year head start on their concept to get used to it. Remembr they have had no major upgrades this year to date so nothings really changed. Merc on the other hand overhauled their car a couple races ago so essentially it's bahrain all over again in terms of progress

[Just_a_fan]

The other side of the coin is that Merc are protecting George's confidence by suggesting that the Monaco upgrade doesn't suit him and is the explanation for his loss of pace relative to Hamilton.

Last year Mercedes was protecting Hamilton in the same way when he was trailing George. We were told many things like seating position and a disproportionate number of experiments (which George denied).


The truth of the matter is that you have to get on with the car you are given. George handled it really well last year and beginning of this year while Hamilton did not. Post Monaco, Hamilton is dealing with the car well, and George is not.

In theory both drivers need to "get on with it" at all times. One must remain adaptable. They are being paid millions to do so. There cannot be excuses for either driver.

We literally have evidence of Lewis being Mercedes’ guinea pig for half a season. From driver to team principal interviews.

The moment they decided to stop those, he started to outperform Russell and won the qualifying H2H and pretty much tied the race finish H2H (despite 3 adverse SC/VSC which hugely benefitted Russell).

So no Mercedes wasn’t protecting Hamilton.

George denied this.

George denied it, the team didn't.