I have to admit I was not that impressed with Oscar, not a lot I can say now other than well done I was wrong.
Keep it going guys
He came out two or three weeks ago and said that the team that would be up there challenging Red Bull this year would be Mclaren and that we'd be challenging them for the title next year, I think. I haven't re-read it.
There's 3 reasons not to bring the parts to the car after the next major upgradethe EDGE wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:23There will be no significant change of philosophy next year, so anything worked on for next year's can be feed into this car, and vice verse. Its way too early to give up on the Mcl60 now.SmallSoldier wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 18:27If there is one post shutdown, that upgrade is probably already signed off and not under design anymore… I’m all up for more pace from the car!Ground Effect wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 18:04
From the initial plan, there's supposed to be another major upgrade post shut down, which was separate from the 25% balance that was slated for Hungary. It was only this week Stella stated that it would be dependent on a few things, else they get pushed to 2024.
You do not stop when your on a roll
It is interesting because Toto was describing the Aero efficiency of the Mclaren as being very strong.LionsHeart wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:50By the way, I will note once again the fact that even during the presentation of the car, Stella said that they were unhappy with the aerodynamic efficiency and that this was the weakest point. He also stressed that the positive point is that these problems can be solved. And now we have confirmation. Also, McLaren updated the beam wing and rear wing back in Canada and for the last three race weekends they've been riding with the same rear wing spec, with only minor changes to the Gurney flap.
I’d fully agree if others were going to sand still too, but they’re notmwillems wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:43There's 2 reasons not to bring the parts to the car.
The first is that if the car is plain to see one of the fastest on the grid they can care less about the constructors this year, the brand will have taken a boost and that's enough to keep us on track with sponsors and fans.
Second is that the team could fight for one more place in the constructors, but this would come at a financial cost to manufacture the parts. That one place higher would also cost us wind tunnel and CFD allocation, so if the brand is doing well, don't worry about the table, focus on what we need to develop the car as much as possible.
You took a while to write that, I'd subsequently added it to say as much, that the third upgrade needs to keep us near the front, that teams can make big jumps... lolthe EDGE wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:59I’d fully agree if others were going to sand still too, but they’re notmwillems wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:43There's 2 reasons not to bring the parts to the car.
The first is that if the car is plain to see one of the fastest on the grid they can care less about the constructors this year, the brand will have taken a boost and that's enough to keep us on track with sponsors and fans.
Second is that the team could fight for one more place in the constructors, but this would come at a financial cost to manufacture the parts. That one place higher would also cost us wind tunnel and CFD allocation, so if the brand is doing well, don't worry about the table, focus on what we need to develop the car as much as possible.
Merc, Ferrari, Aston & Alpine will all be working away on updates, not to mention the other 4
2nd quickest car today could easily become the 6th, 7th or lower come September, with 9 races to go
Only by improving this car can they have faith in what they are working on for next year
Agreed, but bear in mind Aston brought a major upgrade to Canada, Alpine a new front wing dubbed as "exciting". I think the team started the year way behind and as such were also behind in the development race. It looks like they've caught up and are not standing still either.the EDGE wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:59I’d fully agree if others were going to sand still too, but they’re notmwillems wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:43There's 2 reasons not to bring the parts to the car.
The first is that if the car is plain to see one of the fastest on the grid they can care less about the constructors this year, the brand will have taken a boost and that's enough to keep us on track with sponsors and fans.
Second is that the team could fight for one more place in the constructors, but this would come at a financial cost to manufacture the parts. That one place higher would also cost us wind tunnel and CFD allocation, so if the brand is doing well, don't worry about the table, focus on what we need to develop the car as much as possible.
Merc, Ferrari, Aston & Alpine will all be working away on updates, not to mention the other 4
2nd quickest car today could easily become the 6th, 7th or lower come September, with 9 races to go
Only by improving this car can they have faith in what they are working on for next year
Plus, when has the team ever given him credit?Ground Effect wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:03Andrea Stella openly gave credit to Peter Prodromou for his lead on the Aero developments, so I guess that shows Key's last contribution was the Baku upgrade. A couple of years ago, a poster said with confidence that McLaren hired the wrong Peter from Red Bull, that Renault got the better guy in Pete Machin. I never agreed with that. Machin got fired by Renault and last I heard he's back with Alpha Tauri... enough said.
lol, I shall learn to type quicker just for youmwillems wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:07You took a while to write that, I'd subsequently added it to say as much, that the third upgrade needs to keep us near the front, that teams can make big jumps... lolthe EDGE wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:59I’d fully agree if others were going to sand still too, but they’re notmwillems wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:43There's 2 reasons not to bring the parts to the car.
The first is that if the car is plain to see one of the fastest on the grid they can care less about the constructors this year, the brand will have taken a boost and that's enough to keep us on track with sponsors and fans.
Second is that the team could fight for one more place in the constructors, but this would come at a financial cost to manufacture the parts. That one place higher would also cost us wind tunnel and CFD allocation, so if the brand is doing well, don't worry about the table, focus on what we need to develop the car as much as possible.
Merc, Ferrari, Aston & Alpine will all be working away on updates, not to mention the other 4
2nd quickest car today could easily become the 6th, 7th or lower come September, with 9 races to go
Only by improving this car can they have faith in what they are working on for next year
But still, focus has to be the quickest path to a fast car and bringing parts to the track can actually become a hinderance, especially with the new wind tunnel removing the need for some of the on track testing.
That is a good point, all teams have now had decent upgrades, McLaren's has delivered!Ground Effect wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:07Agreed, but bear in mind Aston brought a major upgrade to Canada, Alpine a new front wing dubbed as "exciting". I think the team started the year way behind and as such were also behind in the development race. It looks like they've caught up and are not standing still either.
It might be better if I slowed down and wrote clearly in the first placethe EDGE wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:18lol, I shall learn to type quicker just for youmwillems wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:07You took a while to write that, I'd subsequently added it to say as much, that the third upgrade needs to keep us near the front, that teams can make big jumps... lolthe EDGE wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 19:59
I’d fully agree if others were going to sand still too, but they’re not
Merc, Ferrari, Aston & Alpine will all be working away on updates, not to mention the other 4
2nd quickest car today could easily become the 6th, 7th or lower come September, with 9 races to go
Only by improving this car can they have faith in what they are working on for next year
But still, focus has to be the quickest path to a fast car and bringing parts to the track can actually become a hinderance, especially with the new wind tunnel removing the need for some of the on track testing.
Yes, but you can work on a new floor for next year, and also put it on this years car. They have a whole production department that aren't going to take a break. Its basically what RB have done, iterations have delivered them results
That is a good point, all teams have now had decent upgrades, McLaren's has delivered!Ground Effect wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:07Agreed, but bear in mind Aston brought a major upgrade to Canada, Alpine a new front wing dubbed as "exciting". I think the team started the year way behind and as such were also behind in the development race. It looks like they've caught up and are not standing still either.
It’s interesting that most have a feeling of what the right tire for McLaren was without a pinch of information or data in regards to tire degradation, how fast the car can heat them up (which could end up overheating them… Like the RBR did at one point)… They not only had the information from the long runs on Friday, they also had information from the Mediums that came out of Piastri’s car… For all we know, Lando could have finished 5th if they went for Softs… Why not give the team credit given that the result validates their decision?FittingMechanics wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:14Great result.
By the way, I think what Oscar did is even more impressive. He was following Lando very closely, only dropping back 2 seconds before the pit stop. Unlucky safety car meant he lost his position to Hamilton. All of this was done without the front wing and without experience of the car after the update. Not to take away from Lando, but this was stellar from Oscar.
I am still very annoyed by the strategy. While I can understand putting Oscar on hards, putting Norris as well meant we put all our eggs in the same "basket" and went against the other teams. This to me is a mistake. Why not follow other teams with Lando since you were given the opportunity. I think they are still in the mindset from the start of the season where they couldn't handle tires but today I think the tire management was fine. Probably because the car is better overall, it is better with tires as well.
Agreed. I was going to slam them on here right after they fitted hards on Landos car then I thought ‘hang on, let’s see how this plays out’ and it played out fairly well.SmallSoldier wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:55It’s interesting that most have a feeling of what the right tire for McLaren was without a pinch of information or data in regards to tire degradation, how fast the car can heat them up (which could end up overheating them… Like the RBR did at one point)… They not only had the information from the long runs on Friday, they also had information from the Mediums that came out of Piastri’s car… For all we know, Lando could have finished 5th if they went for Softs… Why not give the team credit given that the result validates their decision?FittingMechanics wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 20:14Great result.
By the way, I think what Oscar did is even more impressive. He was following Lando very closely, only dropping back 2 seconds before the pit stop. Unlucky safety car meant he lost his position to Hamilton. All of this was done without the front wing and without experience of the car after the update. Not to take away from Lando, but this was stellar from Oscar.
I am still very annoyed by the strategy. While I can understand putting Oscar on hards, putting Norris as well meant we put all our eggs in the same "basket" and went against the other teams. This to me is a mistake. Why not follow other teams with Lando since you were given the opportunity. I think they are still in the mindset from the start of the season where they couldn't handle tires but today I think the tire management was fine. Probably because the car is better overall, it is better with tires as well.