2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[CjC]

McLaren still “pretty terrible” in low speed, says Norris

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/-mcla ... /10494237/

Are those weaknesses mechanical related? Could the mechanical upgrades be targeting just that?

I haven't seen anything rumoured or confirmed that Mclaren are bringing a mechanical upgrade?

[BMMR61]

Is it valid to point at Lando’s strong (p4) qualifying at Hungary with last year’s car when previewing this next race? Given pundits claim (and data confirms) the characteristics are still weak in slow, long corners, strong in medium to fast sweeps, it doesn’t look too disastrous for our chances I feel. Certainly the field is even more packed than 2022 so risk/reward is steep. I bang on about this part a lot but race to race momentum comes from understanding of the car and concept and what has been working over recent races. For sure this can only be claimed across two races albeit on two quite different tracks. Add to that the fact that the major aero changes pretty well worked out of the box, I think we should be at least cautiously optimistic. A good car works everywhere should be our mindset, so far 60B looks like it should be a much broader performance package. Sure Lando’s “still pretty terrible” comment sounded harsh but I think he’s challenging the design team to front up to that too long handling issue that killed off Daniel’s career.

[MrGapes]

This will be a long one
I heard last night on Peter Windsor's podcast that the call to put Lando&Oscar on hards was Zak's,nowidk if he was kidding or not but he(Zak) wax a racer and maybe he was thinking:'What would I do in this case'?
Do you think that Zak could have made the decision all by himself or Windsor exagerated p?
At the cut off point for the next alocation in the wind tunnel/CFD Mclaren was behind Alpine so we will have a double advantage,we are going to use more wind/tunnel time and we will no longer waste time on the road to Cologne.
After the Sakir quali the difference between RBR and Mclaren was 2.2s and now there was just under 0.3s,that is a MASSIVE diference that use to be recouped in the aspirated engines era not in the hybrid era with restrictions on testing,wind tunnel,CFD,finances,so this is a MEGA JOB by the team.

Peter Windsor isn't exactly reliable, almost a parody.
For context, here's a bizarre article he did on Lando and Oscar. The guy is just weird, says stuff that can't be verified randomly.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/oscar-pia ... -red-bull/

Lol yeah he is good for a good laugh Peter with his takes. But sometimes he has good factual info.
But the idea that Piastri isnt good for Lando is nuts.

This the guy that goes on about short corners and long corners every 10 seconds right…

[SmallSoldier]

Is it valid to point at Lando’s strong (p4) qualifying at Hungary with last year’s car when previewing this next race? Given pundits claim (and data confirms) the characteristics are still weak in slow, long corners, strong in medium to fast sweeps, it doesn’t look too disastrous for our chances I feel. Certainly the field is even more packed than 2022 so risk/reward is steep. I bang on about this part a lot but race to race momentum comes from understanding of the car and concept and what has been working over recent races. For sure this can only be claimed across two races albeit on two quite different tracks. Add to that the fact that the major aero changes pretty well worked out of the box, I think we should be at least cautiously optimistic. A good car works everywhere should be our mindset, so far 60B looks like it should be a much broader performance package. Sure Lando’s “still pretty terrible” comment sounded harsh but I think he’s challenging the design team to front up to that too long handling issue that killed off Daniel’s career.

Instead of been cautiously optimistic or pessimistic… Why not just wait until we get there?

I am waiting for the weekend with zero expectations, like if it would be the second race of the season and no pecking order has been established yet… Looking forward to what the data will show from a very different track compared to Austria and Silverstone

[Balalu]

McLaren still “pretty terrible” in low speed, says Norris

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/-mcla ... /10494237/

Are those weaknesses mechanical related? Could the mechanical upgrades be targeting just that?

I haven't seen anything rumoured or confirmed that Mclaren are bringing a mechanical upgrade?

I read somewhere that the upgrades are sidepods, engine cover and floor (50%) in Austria, wings for the British GP (25%) and mechanical for Hungary (25%). I think this was before Austria and have been spot on till now.

I'm trying to find the source.

Edit: the source is proving difficult to find. I beleive it was an article quoting AMuS.

[organic]

I'm expecting that performance in Hungary will depend on conditions. If repeat of last year's conditions, the car would fight for podium again imo

If it's hotter, we can talk about points

[scuderiabrandon]

I'm expecting that performance in Hungary will depend on conditions. If repeat of last year's conditions, the car would fight for podium again imo

If it's hotter, we can talk about points

A bit more rear limited aswell, if Lando says the issues are still what they were before, I'm assuming it'll slighlty more difficult weekend.

They'll certainly be more competitive if its colder tho. I am super impressed at how they can warm up the tyre so quickly. I think they do this the best on the grid.

[BMMR61]

Is it valid to point at Lando’s strong (p4) qualifying at Hungary with last year’s car when previewing this next race? Given pundits claim (and data confirms) the characteristics are still weak in slow, long corners, strong in medium to fast sweeps, it doesn’t look too disastrous for our chances I feel. Certainly the field is even more packed than 2022 so risk/reward is steep. I bang on about this part a lot but race to race momentum comes from understanding of the car and concept and what has been working over recent races. For sure this can only be claimed across two races albeit on two quite different tracks. Add to that the fact that the major aero changes pretty well worked out of the box, I think we should be at least cautiously optimistic. A good car works everywhere should be our mindset, so far 60B looks like it should be a much broader performance package. Sure Lando’s “still pretty terrible” comment sounded harsh but I think he’s challenging the design team to front up to that too long handling issue that killed off Daniel’s career.

Instead of been cautiously optimistic or pessimistic… Why not just wait until we get there?

I am waiting for the weekend with zero expectations, like if it would be the second race of the season and no pecking order has been established yet… Looking forward to what the data will show from a very different track compared to Austria and Silverstone

Indeed. McLaren team spokespeople Zak, Andrea etc are quick to dampen down wild explanations for good reasons. But forums are places where fans deprived of good performances (McLaren) react as though a small uptick in results for one race might be the start of the road to victory. Big reasons to support Silverstone being a bit of an outlier. Cool temperatures, corner type etc. The opposite view can be supported by two good weekends in a row, and the introduction of major aero developments. I’m eagerly anticipating Hungary to add another dot on the graph to see if there’s a trend but painfully aware that we can be brought down to earth very quickly.

For me the quick increase in results indicates a significant part of this is directly from the changes made. I’ve been tuned to the races from Bahrain in some part because of the early diagnosis of the fundamental error in the ground effect concept. They knew something early from simulation. The simulation was accurate. The drastic reshuffle promised greater integration of aero in the conceptualisation. Three steps over consecutive races would reveal a reset etc. Modest promises made, even greater results delivered. I’ve lived through Bahrain 2023, I’ll live through the inevitable disappointments ahead.

[BMMR61]

Is it possible to win a championship as an engine customer team? I think Ron Dennis was the first to make the case for NO.

[geogate]

The track temp is going to be a big factor for results, but what was interesting was that the performance clearly wasnt just because mclaren switched the tyres on when the others couldnt, as the relative performance was still there when the competition had got their tyres in the optimum operating range - mclaren were still quick relatively

[geogate]

Is it possible to win a championship as an engine customer team? I think Ron Dennis was the first to make the case for NO.

I think that was true in Rons era, but I don't think that is true now.

[djos]

Is it possible to win a championship as an engine customer team? I think Ron Dennis was the first to make the case for NO.

I think that was true in Rons era, but I don't think that is true now.

Agreed, customer engines must be the same spec in every way now, just look at McLaren and Aston both beating Merc with their own PU this year.

[PikeStance]

Every one at McLaren have been downplaying the expectations with every single upgrade and each time there have been noticeable improvements.

A car design that fundamentally flawed to run in hot conditions for a circuit that runs primarily in summer conditions seems silly. Granted, design doesn't necessarily yield ideal results (e.g. Haas) but what's the point in developing a car that I still going to have that has a liability. it sounds like an easy downplay for the to use and the media is eating it up.

They creating a car that can compete with Red Bull, you don't attempt to do that with a fundamental flaw, you do that with eliminating that fundamental flaw.

I am new to F1 and new to McLaren. So maybe I do not have years of encrusted disappointments to shed. However, I also been around sports long enough that optimism needs to be in check.

BTW, I know disappointments well, I am a New Orleans Saints fan since the 70s. Founded in '66, we did not have a winning season until 87. In the late 70s we had hopeful mediocre years before crashing to 1-15. Then Coach Bum brought us to the brink only to lose in the final game of the season. Finally making the playoff in 87, we started 3-3 winning 9 straight before being destroyed by the Vikings. We would win our first division title in 91, but it will take to 2000 to win a playoff game. In 2009 we won our only Super Bowl appearance. people today may see us as a perennially winning team, but we have a history of disappointments and I lived through them all. No McLaren Glory days for us!
llet's enjoy this ride, sports can be a roller coaster!

[PikeStance]

Is it possible to win a championship as an engine customer team? I think Ron Dennis was the first to make the case for NO.

I think that was true in Rons era, but I don't think that is true now.

Agreed, customer engines must be the same spec in every way now, just look at McLaren and Aston both beating Merc with their own PU this year.

It would be pretty dumb for McLaren or any other team to purchase a second rate PU.

[djos]

I think that was true in Rons era, but I don't think that is true now.

Agreed, customer engines must be the same spec in every way now, just look at McLaren and Aston both beating Merc with their own PU this year.

It would be pretty dumb for McLaren or any other team to purchase a second rate PU.

You must not have been following F1 for very long.