2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[mwillems]

I'm not sure why folks are stressing abut Hungary. Some of the info also seems to contradict telemetry and the teams own comments. We are not weak in slow corners, we just had less improvement in slow corners, and there was improvement in slow corners. The telemetry bore this out. Vs those around us we consistently held more minimum speed at these corners.

What will be more interesting is how we fare in the conditions at Hungary. The track has 3 slow corners and 3 high speed and not is very twisty, it is predicted that the temperature will be mid 30's celcius.
This temperature and the track surface being bumpy and not the most grippy offer conditions that traditionally have challenged us. I see an opportunity for the car to show how much it has come on and I'm excited to see how we perform. Being realistic I am bearing in mind that if we are in the top ten we will have done well, we will still be podium contenders at other tracks if we haven't yet managed to cover of all of our deficiencies. Time to chill and enjoy the renaissance

[Mostlyeels]

McLaren has moved ahead of Alpine in the constructors standings now: 59 to 47. Two DNFs from Alpine sure, temporary maybe, but great to see ... definitely!

[MrGapes]

https://racingnews365.nl/marko-zet-red- ... s#comments

Surely he waits and see how the team performs next year?

[billamend]

Helmut has tried many times. Lando never accepted.

[PikeStance]

Helmut has tried many times. Lando never accepted.

This is old news. Red Bull already approach Lando prior to signing the current contract.

Agreed, customer engines must be the same spec in every way now, just look at McLaren and Aston both beating Merc with their own PU this year.

It would be pretty dumb for McLaren or any other team to purchase a second rate PU.

You must not have been following F1 for very long.

You are suggesting that Mercedes HPP is engaged in fraud? I think you should have some source for evidence for making this claim.

[djos]

Helmut has tried many times. Lando never accepted.

This is old news. Red Bull already approach Lando prior to signing the current contract.

It would be pretty dumb for McLaren or any other team to purchase a second rate PU.

You must not have been following F1 for very long.

You are suggesting that Mercedes HPP is engaged in fraud? I think you should have some source for evidence for making this claim.

I’m not sure if English is your native language, but it would seem we are misunderstanding each other.

[CjC]

Are those weaknesses mechanical related? Could the mechanical upgrades be targeting just that?

I haven't seen anything rumoured or confirmed that Mclaren are bringing a mechanical upgrade?

I read somewhere that the upgrades are sidepods, engine cover and floor (50%) in Austria, wings for the British GP (25%) and mechanical for Hungary (25%). I think this was before Austria and have been spot on till now.

I'm trying to find the source.

Edit: the source is proving difficult to find. I beleive it was an article quoting AMuS.

Ok that’s fair enough if you have read something. I recall Stella saying some upgrades are under the skin which means they don’t have to disclose the details during the ‘show and tell’ sessions so there could have been/ could still be a suspension update- we did see in Silverstone that they changed the fairing of the suspension for aerodynamic purposes.

But saying that I personally doubt there will be a mechanical upgrade to the suspension (would love to be proven wrong).
Reason I think this is from what we have seen so far on the 50/25/25 split. Stella said all of the aerodynamic surfaces of the car will change.
For the 50% I thought floor/ diffuser, side pods and engine cover- which we saw.
Then I thought the next 25% would be a new front and rear wing but we only got the front wing.
I thought we’d see a suspension upgrade as the last 25% in Hungary but as we didn’t see a new rear wing in Silverstone it makes me think we’ll see a new, more efficient high downforce rear wing.
Just my conclusions.

[FittingMechanics]

Is it possible to win a championship as an engine customer team? I think Ron Dennis was the first to make the case for NO.

It is possible. Red Bull won/dominated against Renault as a customer team.
McLaren beat Renault as a customer (they didn't win a constructors championship but if the cars were fast enough, it would work). Even today, it looks like Aston started the year ahead of Mercedes and maybe today McLaren is ahead of Mercedes.

You are probably slightly hindered by being a customer, especially if the other team is a title contender but it can be done, you just need to do a stellar job.

[mclaren111]

Every one at McLaren have been downplaying the expectations with every single upgrade and each time there have been noticeable improvements.

A car design that fundamentally flawed to run in hot conditions for a circuit that runs primarily in summer conditions seems silly. Granted, design doesn't necessarily yield ideal results (e.g. Haas) but what's the point in developing a car that I still going to have that has a liability. it sounds like an easy downplay for the to use and the media is eating it up.

They creating a car that can compete with Red Bull, you don't attempt to do that with a fundamental flaw, you do that with eliminating that fundamental flaw.

I am new to F1 and new to McLaren. So maybe I do not have years of encrusted disappointments to shed. However, I also been around sports long enough that optimism needs to be in check.

BTW, I know disappointments well, I am a New Orleans Saints fan since the 70s. Founded in '66, we did not have a winning season until 87. In the late 70s we had hopeful mediocre years before crashing to 1-15. Then Coach Bum brought us to the brink only to lose in the final game of the season. Finally making the playoff in 87, we started 3-3 winning 9 straight before being destroyed by the Vikings. We would win our first division title in 91, but it will take to 2000 to win a playoff game. In 2009 we won our only Super Bowl appearance. people today may see us as a perennially winning team, but we have a history of disappointments and I lived through them all. No McLaren Glory days for us!
llet's enjoy this ride, sports can be a roller coaster!

I've been a Mclaren supporter since 1988... You can imagine the ups & downs I've been through...

[FittingMechanics]

Every one at McLaren have been downplaying the expectations with every single upgrade and each time there have been noticeable improvements.

A car design that fundamentally flawed to run in hot conditions for a circuit that runs primarily in summer conditions seems silly. Granted, design doesn't necessarily yield ideal results (e.g. Haas) but what's the point in developing a car that I still going to have that has a liability. it sounds like an easy downplay for the to use and the media is eating it up.

They creating a car that can compete with Red Bull, you don't attempt to do that with a fundamental flaw, you do that with eliminating that fundamental flaw.

I am new to F1 and new to McLaren. So maybe I do not have years of encrusted disappointments to shed. However, I also been around sports long enough that optimism needs to be in check.

BTW, I know disappointments well, I am a New Orleans Saints fan since the 70s. Founded in '66, we did not have a winning season until 87. In the late 70s we had hopeful mediocre years before crashing to 1-15. Then Coach Bum brought us to the brink only to lose in the final game of the season. Finally making the playoff in 87, we started 3-3 winning 9 straight before being destroyed by the Vikings. We would win our first division title in 91, but it will take to 2000 to win a playoff game. In 2009 we won our only Super Bowl appearance. people today may see us as a perennially winning team, but we have a history of disappointments and I lived through them all. No McLaren Glory days for us!
llet's enjoy this ride, sports can be a roller coaster!

I too am quite optimistic. The team is very cautious and even if they believed they are clearly 2nd best team, they would downplay expectations. That is just their style and it is to be expected.

I don't think the car is clearly 2nd but I also don't think the car will be atrocious in Hungary. It will probably turn out that the upgrade helped with tyre management in addition with the performance and that they can run in top 10 easily now. Whether that is P5 or P3 or P8 will depend on the track and form.

I've been a Mclaren supporter since 1988... You can imagine the ups & downs I've been through...

Indeed. That is also what I find very entertaining about the sport and about "fandom". It is easy to jump and switch allegiances but then those highs don't feel that high since you are constantly riding them. It is much more enjoyable to see your team come back to the front and earn it.

[organic]

Helmut has tried many times. Lando never accepted.

This is old news. Red Bull already approach Lando prior to signing the current contract.

Indeed they did however there are rumours that Marko met with Lando's agent at the British GP. And with lot of talk about RB's second seat they could be considering a crazy swoop for Lando

Frankly I believe Norris will turn down any Marko approach.

[bauc]

I'm not sure why folks are stressing abut Hungary. Some of the info also seems to contradict telemetry and the teams own comments. We are not weak in slow corners, we just had less improvement in slow corners, and there was improvement in slow corners. The telemetry bore this out. Vs those around us we consistently held more minimum speed at these corners.

We are weak at the exist of slow corners, mainly due to lack of front mechanical grip and traction at the rear, and we are weak in the slow but twisty corners where you need to change direction multiple times, again due to the same reasons mentioned above. Weak front end leads to understeer, thus the difficulty, so hopefully this has been mitigated with the new upgrades (installed & to be installed in Hungary)

[mwillems]

I'm not sure why folks are stressing abut Hungary. Some of the info also seems to contradict telemetry and the teams own comments. We are not weak in slow corners, we just had less improvement in slow corners, and there was improvement in slow corners. The telemetry bore this out. Vs those around us we consistently held more minimum speed at these corners.

We are weak at the exist of slow corners, mainly due to lack of front mechanical grip and traction at the rear, and we are weak in the slow but twisty corners where you need to change direction multiple times, again due to the same reasons mentioned above. Weak front end leads to understeer, thus the difficulty, so hopefully this has been mitigated with the new upgrades (installed & to be installed in Hungary)

Are we weak on exit and in twisty corners in this configuration or this that a reference to the trait we have had prior to the update?

I confess I didn't look at corner exit at Silverstone but we were certainly not great in twisty sections and we weren't always great at corner exit.... but I always thought the team were suggesting this was down to two things, the conditions (Temps, Track Surface) and the cars ability to run off throttle and not all twisty sections are equal. Lando has confirmed that the off throttle issue is much better now anyway due to the cars new Aero.

All I'm saying is, we don't fully know what is weak on this car yet and the strengths and weaknesses are changeable based on circumstances, so Hungry represents its own challenge.

To my amateur eyes the telemetry below doesn't suggest we struggle in the twist sections, in fact in the final two twisty corners before the straight we are on a par or faster than Mercedes. It doesn't men we are perfect and there isn't work to do, but I'd just not call it weak, we don't have enough evidence yet. Not only that, this new car specification has only been tested in cool conditions and with decent track surfaces. So for me it feels quite unkown.

[bauc]

I'm not sure why folks are stressing abut Hungary. Some of the info also seems to contradict telemetry and the teams own comments. We are not weak in slow corners, we just had less improvement in slow corners, and there was improvement in slow corners. The telemetry bore this out. Vs those around us we consistently held more minimum speed at these corners.

We are weak at the exist of slow corners, mainly due to lack of front mechanical grip and traction at the rear, and we are weak in the slow but twisty corners where you need to change direction multiple times, again due to the same reasons mentioned above. Weak front end leads to understeer, thus the difficulty, so hopefully this has been mitigated with the new upgrades (installed & to be installed in Hungary)

Are we weak on exit and in twisty corners in this configuration or this that a reference to the trait we have had prior to the update?

I confess I didn't look at corner exit at Silverstone but we were certainly not great in twisty sections and we weren't always great at corner exit.... but I always thought the team were suggesting this was down to two things, the conditions (Temps, Track Surface) and the cars ability to run off throttle and not all twisty sections are equal. Lando has confirmed that the off throttle issue is much better now anyway due to the cars new Aero.

All I'm saying is, we don't fully know what is weak on this car yet and the strengths and weaknesses are changeable based on circumstances, so Hungry represents its own challenge.

To my amateur eyes the telemetry below doesn't suggest we struggle in the twist sections, in fact in the final two twisty corners before the straight we are on a par or faster than Mercedes. It doesn't men we are perfect and there isn't work to do, but I'd just not call it weak, we don't have enough evidence yet. Not only that, this new car specification has only been tested in cool conditions and with decent track surfaces. So for me it feels quite unkown.

https://i.ibb.co/HKgpR51/Norris-v-Ham.png

Take for example the track at Barcelona, turns 10 throughout 13 were pure pain for us, to clarify I'm talking about twisty turns where you hare not traveling that fast, so comparison to Silverstone is not ideal as this is a track were you carry much more speed and momentum trough the corners.

[mwillems]

We are weak at the exist of slow corners, mainly due to lack of front mechanical grip and traction at the rear, and we are weak in the slow but twisty corners where you need to change direction multiple times, again due to the same reasons mentioned above. Weak front end leads to understeer, thus the difficulty, so hopefully this has been mitigated with the new upgrades (installed & to be installed in Hungary)

Are we weak on exit and in twisty corners in this configuration or this that a reference to the trait we have had prior to the update?

I confess I didn't look at corner exit at Silverstone but we were certainly not great in twisty sections and we weren't always great at corner exit.... but I always thought the team were suggesting this was down to two things, the conditions (Temps, Track Surface) and the cars ability to run off throttle and not all twisty sections are equal. Lando has confirmed that the off throttle issue is much better now anyway due to the cars new Aero.

All I'm saying is, we don't fully know what is weak on this car yet and the strengths and weaknesses are changeable based on circumstances, so Hungry represents its own challenge.

To my amateur eyes the telemetry below doesn't suggest we struggle in the twist sections, in fact in the final two twisty corners before the straight we are on a par or faster than Mercedes. It doesn't men we are perfect and there isn't work to do, but I'd just not call it weak, we don't have enough evidence yet. Not only that, this new car specification has only been tested in cool conditions and with decent track surfaces. So for me it feels quite unkown.

https://i.ibb.co/HKgpR51/Norris-v-Ham.png

Take for example the track at Barcelona, turns 10 throughout 13 were pure pain for us, to clarify I'm talking about twisty turns where you hare not traveling that fast, so comparison to Silverstone is not ideal as this is a track were you carry much more speed and momentum trough the corners.

Ahh OK I get you. So yes we were certainly not great, but this is in many ways a different car now, so I suppose what I'm saying is we can't assume what traits have carried over. In the Silverstone telemetry there are two parts for the track that are twisty, although I'm not sure they require much off throttle, certainly not before the start finish straight. But in the opportunities at low speed corners we had good exit and good minimum speed.

What I'm not sure about was wether that was influenced by the temps and the surface and I think Hungary will be a very good chance to see what flaws the car may have fixed or may still have, but I wouldn't want to say that the car is weak at corner exit or twisty off throttle sections just yet, because so far the data looks promising. But that's just my take, I feel optimistic that this car will work well at Hungary, and well for me is two top ten finishes.