2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Puffpirat]

RBR is the only team running Honda engine so it's possible RBR may have an engine performance advantage as well. Hence aero development may still have its limitation in catching Max.

So the best outcome for 2024, may just be the best of the rest.

AT is also running the same engine. If it would have an advantage how god awful must the AT chassis be…

[chrisc90]

[Stu]

https://scontent.flba3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=64B54296

Is anyone else sick & tired of the Martketing 101 b******t!?

Only one team can win, competition is about challenging and beating your adversaries; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win spite of yourselves, sometimes you win regardless. Ron Dennis started the whole 2nd place is first loser nonsense.

[chrisc90]

https://scontent.flba3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=64B54296

Is anyone else sick & tired of the Martketing 101 b*****t!?

Only one team can win, competition is about challenging and beating your adversaries; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win spite of yourselves, sometimes you win regardless. Ron Dennis started the whole 2nd place is first loser nonsense.

Just got to bring your A game and hopefully find the reason why some cars perform and some dont. There has been some 'lower end' teams that have brought a good upgrade package and made their car a lot faster.
It begs the question though....at what point in the season do you think that your not going to compete for the title (realistically) and start work on next years car in a effort to try and find the reason your car didn't succeed in the current year.

I'm sure Mercedes will find the reason for it. Just a LOT harder in times of a budget cap and not being able to throw every last penny against a design.

Merc have a design where they can explore a few more shapes with the sidepods now. Id have imagined the radiators/coolers etc are still positioned in a way where they could bring them more out and allow a undercut in the sidepods. IF that is the key area where downforce and balance is found. (I dont think the holy grail is the floor solely)

The thing that strikes me is the such high upper engine cover leading backwards from the Halo. Compared to others it just doesnt look 'right'. But thats unlikely to have a big effect on things.

[ringo]

Wolff has a winner's mentality. He has to believr in his own hype.
Williams is a good example of complacency.
I like the myopic view of anything elsebut the top step is fa failure.
Ferrari also continue to beleive in their own hype and despite their rubbish they have somehow maintained a consisten front running team by shear belief in their entitlement.

But i would switch from Mercedes if they become the next Williams or Mclaren.

I would love to see Lewis in red.. but he just talks to much about loyalty to mercedes and keeps commiting by his words. He is going to regret his oaths to merc if one day Totto says hey we are going to let you go.. or Ferrari say hey have 100 million pounds per season to drive for us and we have a domoninant car waiting for you 10 seconds per lap faster than redbull.
I just find it hard to see him languishing in 3rd for many years and still smiling and having hope and not seeing the reality thar Merc have gone back to their honda earth dream days.

[Big Tea]

https://scontent.flba3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=64B54296

Is anyone else sick & tired of the Martketing 101 b******t!?

Only one team can win, competition is about challenging and beating your adversaries; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win spite of yourselves, sometimes you win regardless. Ron Dennis started the whole 2nd place is first loser nonsense.

I know it is not the same for a professional setup, but I raced for years with zero chance of winning against the same 4, as everyone racing was and we knew it. I have played several sports and wins were 'occasional' to be kind, but still spent my own money and in my own time weekend after weekend. Although the point of racing and the intent of competitors is to win, people still do it because just taking part is worthwhile.

Race teams also get all sorts of returns like sponsorship, skills development and just plain kudos that puts them in a good light and pleases their customers. I don't think most of them are there for the money and over half of them do not even expect to be on the podium, but still race.

It depends on why they are there, but I believe most of them are for reasons other than world titles and are happy with second, or third or even fifth or sixth for some

[Farnborough]

https://scontent.flba3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=64B54296

Is anyone else sick & tired of the Martketing 101 b******t!?

Only one team can win, competition is about challenging and beating your adversaries; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win spite of yourselves, sometimes you win regardless. Ron Dennis started the whole 2nd place is first loser nonsense.

Unsure if I've grasped the right angle on it, but do feel it's the inevitable consequence of teams operating as named part of a very large manufacturer.
That overall reputation is vital to protect, by extension the operation becomes ultimately a purely marketing tool with the onus to maintain corporate success story at any cost.
Previously seen here in spending with the huge budget MB applied to buy that success, now curtailed, but needing to look professional/competent even in this period of failure.

I do feel that F1 in general is just going down the route of such distortion generally, with more manufacturer teams being courted recently, it's going to look more and more like this.

As you note, they can't all win that coveted driver's championship, someone will look bad at some point. How long the failure is tolerated at board level is something we do find out occasionally, with Honda, BMW, Toyota etc officially deciding to leave after very lean periods of not being seen as successful.

[Tiny73]

In reality, the frustration stems from never shaking the feeling of AD21. Righting a clear wrong and seeing those chances slip away.

I think AD21 followed by the budget cap issue leaves a real sour taste for me. I personally like the way Mercedes approach the sport and conversely other teams (well one in particular) leave me cold in their approach. I’m a lewis fan (note: fan not fanboi, defending Lewis never being wrong is not a hill I’ll be dying on) but I like the transparency and clarity they provide to the fans.

[AR3-GP]

https://scontent.flba3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=64B54296

I don't see anything wrong with this statement. It's acknowledgement of reality. They couldn't give two shoes about 2nd or 3rd place. They are not here for that.

[CHT]

Just seems that fans have lost a bit of faith in Mercedes.

imo, the ones that's have lost faith are the fairweather fans, and those fans who jump from one team/driver to the another, because they "can't only be associated with people winning".

Merc AMG is still a fairly young team, founded in 2010 with Nico and 7x WDC(MS) and they have gone on to win 8 WCC from 2014 to 2021. I guess some Merc fans are perhaps new to F1 or too used to winning and they also hoping for instant success and recovery. the thought of Merc struggling is just incomprehensible at the moment.

Williams, Ferrari, Mclaren, Renault, RBR etc have all done through their highs and very low, and now Merc is having their moments I guess

[Big Tea]

Just seems that fans have lost a bit of faith in Mercedes.

imo, the ones that's have lost faith are the fairweather fans, and those fans who jump from one team/driver to the another, because they "can't only be associated with people winning".

Merc AMG is still a fairly young team, founded in 2010 with Nico and 7x WDC(MS) and they have gone on to win 8 WCC from 2014 to 2021. I guess some Merc fans are perhaps new to F1 or too used to winning and they also hoping for instant success and recovery. the thought of Merc struggling is just incomprehensible at the moment.

Williams, Ferrari, Mclaren, Renault, RBR etc have all done through their highs and very low, and now Merc is having their moments I guess

AS my teacher used to tell me- Its character building .

Or, it is an introduction to real life

[j_ste]

https://scontent.flba3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=64B54296

Is anyone else sick & tired of the Martketing 101 b******t!?

Only one team can win, competition is about challenging and beating your adversaries; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win spite of yourselves, sometimes you win regardless. Ron Dennis started the whole 2nd place is first loser nonsense.

I think there is a difference between finishing second, in the process of pushing whoever finished First...(2018 WCC). And finishing second in a season like this one, where you havent even seen the heels of the champion.

They know where they are. Which is a good thing.

[denyall]

https://scontent.flba3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/ ... e=64B54296

Is anyone else sick & tired of the Martketing 101 b******t!?

Only one team can win, competition is about challenging and beating your adversaries; sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you win spite of yourselves, sometimes you win regardless. Ron Dennis started the whole 2nd place is first loser nonsense.

I don't understand the negativity around Mercedes and how/what they choose to communicate with their fans in the Mercedes Team thread...

Looking at other team's threads here it seems unique to Mercedes.

After reddits meltdown, I was hoping this fourm and thread would be more low key with higher effort posts chatting about team news with other Merc fans. Probably naive to hope...

Anyway, I agree with Toto, 2nd or 3rd really doesn't matter at this point. I hope Mercedes finds a way to maximize whatever cost cap they have left of parts and development that will carry over to next year's reworked chassis and concept. Hopefully full and complete abandonment of the zero pod will enable them to approach the w15 with new eyes and we will be in the fight against Redbull. No doubt in my mind that RB has a half second of bolt ons ready to go, along with their half second advantage over the current field, it's gonna take a monumental effort to fight them for a championship. At least 2021 proved that two unique concepts can be fast. I think that's why Merc is in no hurry to copy redbull as many here seem to think they should. You can never copy a concept and do it better than the original, as is evidenced by every copy cat car in existence (please be gentle, not a F1 historian).

[zibby43]

Just seems that fans have lost a bit of faith in Mercedes.

imo, the ones that's have lost faith are the fairweather fans, and those fans who jump from one team/driver to the another, because they "can't only be associated with people winning".

I think there’s a key difference between losing faith and trying to hold the team accountable with reasonable criticism, however.

[omegacel71]

Getting jumped by customer teams , first Aston Martin now McLaren has made few fans cynical. Honestly the reason Mercedes is P2 in WCC is more down to the drivers maximizing every race result with Ferrari dropping the ball and Aston Martin only having one Tier 1 driver. Their pace doesn't look any different than the other teams like AM or Ferrari.

Most neutral fans also realize that Merc are the only top team that can consistently mount a challenge to Red Bull over the course of a season given a good enough car. Most fans have lost any faith they had in Ferrari in 2022.