This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Why would Lando leave a team that is rallying around him to go be a #2 driver at the sharkpit that is RBR? Whether he beats Max or Max beats him or even if they are equals, his friendship with Max will likely be ruined. Also, who is to say Marko wont cast him to the B-team within 5-6 races if he gets consistently beaten? UNLESS Max has told him that he is serious about his early retirement hints and will bounce in 1-2 years.....
In my opinion it would be stupid if he left McLaren for RedBull with Max there and because he is king at McLaren.
If the trend continues, even Sainz will regret leaving for Charle's team.
But, shocking and unreasonable things have happened before and will continue to happen.
Despite there being two cars in a "team," the race strategy promotes favoritism towards one car.
Example:
(1) 25 pts + (6) 8 pts = 33
(2) 18 pts + (4) 12pts = 30
Moreover, 2nd and 3rd are 33 pts meaning 1st and 5th are superior to two podium finishes.
In most races, RB only needs to have Perez in the top 6 or at worse top 5. First place is all that matters.
So Ferrari favoring Charles over Carlos and Hamilton over Russel (previously) Bottas makes sense.
It is only a team sport to get one car in first. You see this strategic approach play out each week.
Red Bull will be Max First, Mercedes is Hamilton First, and Ferrari is LeClerc first. If Norris thinks he can go to any of those teams and think he will have a legit shot at championships, he is smoking rope. I actually think Carolo Sainz at this point is better than LeClerc but Ferrari will never develop a strategy to allow that to happen unless it is painfully obvious. Even with Mclaren, Piastri actually had a good pace and may have been stronger than Norris this past weekend, but McLaren pulled the reigns on him and the rest is history.
It's not even close to comparable. Piastri is a rookie and he did not have better race pace when you see the whole picture. Carlos has been kicked in the nuts by Ferrari multiple times this year. They seem to be doing anything so not to loose Leclerc. That is the impression I'm getting.
Last edited by Balalu on 13 Jul 2023, 16:50, edited 1 time in total.
"I showed him [with my hands] and said: I have bigger balls!” - Mika Hakkinen
Looking at that 3d overlay analysis between max and lando you can just see the differences in corner entry speeds and traction/drive out of them. Looking in particular at the slower corners 3/4 and the last couple the mclaren really does not seem too bad at all. In fact I'm certain that deducting the gains that max makes on the longer straights would probably see lando having the faster lap.
Of course it may be weather permitting, but I have very high hopes for Hungary with this updated car in a high downforce configuration.
@MrGapes - you may be getting you're regular podiums and challenges sooner than expected sir.
I have to say I never seen a point be taken out of context like this before.
My point is that the point system promotes teams having a primary driver and a supporting driver.
<-Pike---- Expat American in Guangzhou Native New Orleans
Looking at that 3d overlay analysis between max and lando you can just see the differences in corner entry speeds and traction/drive out of them. Looking in particular at the slower corners 3/4 and the last couple the mclaren really does not seem too bad at all. In fact I'm certain that deducting the gains that max makes on the longer straights would probably see lando having the faster lap.
Of course it may be weather permitting, but I have very high hopes for Hungary with this updated car in a high downforce configuration.
@MrGapes - you may be getting you're regular podiums and challenges sooner than expected sir.
Hungary is normally hot, much more than we saw at Silverstone. Prior to Austria and the B spec, the car worked its tyres in a way not too dissimilar to the Haas. Quick heat build up especially the fronts favours qualifying but often results in race pace quickly falling off. Barcelona was a good example this year. If Hungary is 30+ degrees as expected it will provide more clues about any limitations to the gains made by the new car. Under the cool Silverstone race conditions the pace didn’t destroy the medium tyre relative to Mercedes and Ferrari so this will be interesting, revealing even. Russell stated he thought that there was every chance McLaren’s pace was not as circuit specific as most thought. Circuit specific, temperature specific? We don’t know yet how the variables are stacked. Austria was put down to Lando’s special talent there. “Silverstone will be more challenging “. Now everyone is saying Silverstone was a McLaren track. Lando qualified 4th in Hungary last year. An intriguing season is ahead.
Looking at that 3d overlay analysis between max and lando you can just see the differences in corner entry speeds and traction/drive out of them. Looking in particular at the slower corners 3/4 and the last couple the mclaren really does not seem too bad at all. In fact I'm certain that deducting the gains that max makes on the longer straights would probably see lando having the faster lap.
Of course it may be weather permitting, but I have very high hopes for Hungary with this updated car in a high downforce configuration.
@MrGapes - you may be getting you're regular podiums and challenges sooner than expected sir.
Hungary is normally hot, much more than we saw at Silverstone. Prior to Austria and the B spec, the car worked its tyres in a way not too dissimilar to the Haas. Quick heat build up especially the fronts favours qualifying but often results in race pace quickly falling off. Barcelona was a good example this year. If Hungary is 30+ degrees as expected it will provide more clues about any limitations to the gains made by the new car. Under the cool Silverstone race conditions the pace didn’t destroy the medium tyre relative to Mercedes and Ferrari so this will be interesting, revealing even. Russell stated he thought that there was every chance McLaren’s pace was not as circuit specific as most thought. Circuit specific, temperature specific? We don’t know yet how the variables are stacked. Austria was put down to Lando’s special talent there. “Silverstone will be more challenging “. Now everyone is saying Silverstone was a McLaren track. Lando qualified 4th in Hungary last year. An intriguing season is ahead.
Then, after the results of the race in Hungary, they will say that we have to wait for Belgium.
floor upgrade in Baku "was just an upgrade from a conceptual point of view"
Austria "is potentially an even bigger conceptual step than Baku compared to the launch car"
"now we are finding directions and we are finding performance quicker than we were in a condition to do before"
Stella credits PP for the latest upgrade. Since moving into the role of technical director of aerodynamics, "he’s leading the aerodynamic development at McLaren and he’s doing an exceptional job in terms of setting the conceptual direction, but also having organised and having inspired the entire dynamic group"
Looking at that 3d overlay analysis between max and lando you can just see the differences in corner entry speeds and traction/drive out of them. Looking in particular at the slower corners 3/4 and the last couple the mclaren really does not seem too bad at all. In fact I'm certain that deducting the gains that max makes on the longer straights would probably see lando having the faster lap.
Of course it may be weather permitting, but I have very high hopes for Hungary with this updated car in a high downforce configuration.
@MrGapes - you may be getting you're regular podiums and challenges sooner than expected sir.
Hungary is normally hot, much more than we saw at Silverstone. Prior to Austria and the B spec, the car worked its tyres in a way not too dissimilar to the Haas. Quick heat build up especially the fronts favours qualifying but often results in race pace quickly falling off. Barcelona was a good example this year. If Hungary is 30+ degrees as expected it will provide more clues about any limitations to the gains made by the new car. Under the cool Silverstone race conditions the pace didn’t destroy the medium tyre relative to Mercedes and Ferrari so this will be interesting, revealing even. Russell stated he thought that there was every chance McLaren’s pace was not as circuit specific as most thought. Circuit specific, temperature specific? We don’t know yet how the variables are stacked. Austria was put down to Lando’s special talent there. “Silverstone will be more challenging “. Now everyone is saying Silverstone was a McLaren track. Lando qualified 4th in Hungary last year. An intriguing season is ahead.
Tire warmup or getting energy / heat into the tires is a part of setup… If the window is small, getting the tires into the window for qualifying will leave you either overheating or losing heat in the tires quickly in race conditions (when you don’t necessarily control the pace… Pace is dictated by the group of drivers around you).
If the upgrades have allowed them to have a larger window, with a different required setup to extract lap time, the effects of a “hot track” for the McLaren could very well have lesser impact… The big question (beyond track temperature itself) is how the new cooling outlets will affect the flows going to rear of the car… Does the new concept manages them better? We will find out next week
Looking at that 3d overlay analysis between max and lando you can just see the differences in corner entry speeds and traction/drive out of them. Looking in particular at the slower corners 3/4 and the last couple the mclaren really does not seem too bad at all. In fact I'm certain that deducting the gains that max makes on the longer straights would probably see lando having the faster lap.
Of course it may be weather permitting, but I have very high hopes for Hungary with this updated car in a high downforce configuration.
@MrGapes - you may be getting you're regular podiums and challenges sooner than expected sir.
Hungary is normally hot, much more than we saw at Silverstone. Prior to Austria and the B spec, the car worked its tyres in a way not too dissimilar to the Haas. Quick heat build up especially the fronts favours qualifying but often results in race pace quickly falling off. Barcelona was a good example this year. If Hungary is 30+ degrees as expected it will provide more clues about any limitations to the gains made by the new car. Under the cool Silverstone race conditions the pace didn’t destroy the medium tyre relative to Mercedes and Ferrari so this will be interesting, revealing even. Russell stated he thought that there was every chance McLaren’s pace was not as circuit specific as most thought. Circuit specific, temperature specific? We don’t know yet how the variables are stacked. Austria was put down to Lando’s special talent there. “Silverstone will be more challenging “. Now everyone is saying Silverstone was a McLaren track. Lando qualified 4th in Hungary last year. An intriguing season is ahead.
Then, after the results of the race in Hungary, they will say that we have to wait for Belgium.
We will… Because it has a completely different set of limitations than Silverstone or Hungary
Lando has now come and said that the low speed corner pace is "pretty terrible", but Lando does take a very pessimistic view of things so still, wait and see!
Lando has now come and said that the low speed corner pace is "pretty terrible", but Lando does take a very pessimistic view of things so still, wait and see!
I think McLaren after the validation of the upgrades they believe that can base 2024 car to this year "b" spec. I think realistically they know that it almost impossible to beat Merc ,Aston and Ferrari with 12 rounds remaining. But compare to Merc and Ferrari now they have a solid base to work on and more importantly more time in wind tunnel and CFD due the June reset.I think we are 3-4 months ahead in terms of understanding now because we ditched the original car 4 months before the presentation . It hurted us a lot in term of points but finally change our design direction and put us back on track. So now we have to think how back we are compare to RB .Probably 8 to 12 months and that means that until the 2026 reset season it impossible to get them with one exemption. If Peter Prodromou and more importantly David Sanchez and Rob Marshal bring something revolutionary for 2025 car. I mostly believe in Marshal because his previous work with active suspension with mass damper and in RB i think he is the mastermind behind the antidive
The discovery of the disastrous direction of the MCL60 concept in a way did McLaren a favour. There was no wallpapering over the cracks, responsibility had to be assigned and a major correction had to be made. All McLaren’s competitors are well into development of their 2023 cars, developments which will continue as long as their current championship aspirations dictate. Mercedes, Aston and Ferrari are basically still locked in their individual 2023 development paths which are 10 races old. McLaren by starting again have an almost half-season “offset” to the others which means their 2023 development is still young, and in their case, appearing to be very fruitful and exciting.
Of course this is F1 and development directions can stall out at any time, what usually negates this is good correlation, which equates in effect to understanding what your changes are doing and will do. As many here point out each successive race weekend is an opportunity to move down the desired park, to stagnate, or to take a backward step. F1 being the pinnacle of race design and engineering is a graveyard for dreams. I’ve been following McLaren since early papaya days so have experienced the anticipation of moving up the grid and of humiliation as at Bahrain the last two seasons. The current leap in the step at McLaren is the best I’ve seen for some time. Bring it.
Lando has now come and said that the low speed corner pace is "pretty terrible", but Lando does take a very pessimistic view of things so still, wait and see!
He has consistently shown that he looks on the more pessimistic side and downplayed the team and his own performance, it seems to be how he chooses to try and push things forward.
The car hasn't been set up for low speed yet, lets see if it is terrible! if it is terrible I expect a terrible performance at Hungary. Why don't we have this conversation in 9 days
Lando has now come and said that the low speed corner pace is "pretty terrible", but Lando does take a very pessimistic view of things so still, wait and see!
He has consistently shown that he looks on the more pessimistic side and downplayed the team and his own performance, it seems to be how he chooses to try and push things forward.
The car hasn't been set up for low speed yet, lets see if it is terrible! if it is terrible I expect a terrible performance at Hungary. Why don't we have this conversation in 9 days
Yes he is always downplaying our chances. I guess he’s just careful of raising expectations too much. Pace in turn 3 Spielberg was good. So…
