2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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pursue_one's
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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The last restyling examined on the total black cars did not express the desired results. Time is still needed to validate the major update. Novelties in the front end that claims to handle the outwash effect more profitably. Along the lines of the work done by Maranello engineers, the former grays are looking for aerodynamic interaction between the suspension and front wing.


According to information gathered by our editorial staff Mercedes is trying to further accelerate the development plan in the current championship. The factory efforts will also be extended from the original plan. The W14 still shows clear instability at certain running speeds. Problems due to load generation that definitely need to be solved soon.


That is why, over the remaining rainbow stages, additional aerodynamic innovations will be spread over the black arrows. The action taken is intended to provide the W14 with the necessary vertical thrust on the run, while at the same time trying to reduce drag. In a week's time, the Hungarian Grand Prix, Mercedes engineers will test the updated aerodynamic guise in anticipation of additional changes.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
https://www.funoanalisitecnica.com/2023 ... pdate.html

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JordanMugen
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
15 Jul 2023, 23:47
JordanMugen wrote:
15 Jul 2023, 23:08
Williams FW04, an improved copy of the Lotus 79, won the world championship!
FW07.

The FW04 was a dog.
My bad!

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ValeVida46
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Stu wrote:
14 Jul 2023, 21:19
My statement was driven by a general exasperation at the kind of drivel that ‘needing’ to post ‘something’ on the socials encourages among the great & good to do.

Sometimes it is best to say nothing (or very little - “we really aren’t happy with our car’s performance and want to take the fight to RedBull” would suffice).

It's every team, and has been for the best part of 15 years.

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Stu
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ValeVida46 wrote:
17 Jul 2023, 08:45
Stu wrote:
14 Jul 2023, 21:19

It's every team, and has been for the best part of 15 years.
That every team do it is not in doubt, and my comment in this thread was not a dig at this team, it just happened to be the straw that broke the camel’s back.

The use of press-releases is nothing new, but the shear volume of inane click-bait posts that are made by teams nowadays receives no press ‘editing’ for value of content.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

rijtuig
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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not a dig at this team...

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ValeVida46
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Stu wrote:
17 Jul 2023, 13:45
ValeVida46 wrote:
17 Jul 2023, 08:45
Stu wrote:
14 Jul 2023, 21:19

It's every team, and has been for the best part of 15 years.
That every team do it is not in doubt, and my comment in this thread was not a dig at this team, it just happened to be the straw that broke the camel’s back.

The use of press-releases is nothing new, but the shear volume of inane click-bait posts that are made by teams nowadays receives no press ‘editing’ for value of content.
I'm certainly not suggesting it's a dig, just offering perspective.
Given the prodigious amount of criticism the team gets already.

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ringo
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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There is a lot of money in online content. We should just enjoy the show.
The teams have their PR and social media people and those people get incentives for growing the viewership and followers. So we cannot expect quietness and humility. That doesn't get anyone's attention and I am okay with it.
The build up of expectations creates intrigue.

Will mercedes improve this week? Will they catch redbull or will they fail to make it out of Q1 and toto slams the desk again?
The racing is so boring these days and there is a lack of upgrades and data to review that these little side shows fills the gaps nicely.

I made a comment in the silly season thread about a Hamilton and Alonso to ferrari move. I was somewhat serious about it because of how long this Hamilton contract is taking.
He must be very doubtful about the team. They just have not shown the level fo shameless hunger to copy and make progress.
Alonso likes his team but i think he sees where it can return to force india levels of performance.
Both at ferrari, sainz at mercedes and leclerc at aston would be a good deal.
Hamilton realistically can only race for about 5 years tops. After that it will look sill that a 43 year old is racing with a bunch of kids.
His contract should just be one year which gives him flexibility to jump ship each year until his retirement. But it seems like he and his team are making a mountain out of a mole hill regarding the contract.
For Sure!!

Macklaren
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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There is no chance that Hamilton will go to Ferrari. He already gives his team and Bono so much crap (rightfully in many cases) for strategy. Ferrari will kill him unless they reset their strategy team by the roots. A Lando/Lewis swap is far more likely imo

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
17 Jul 2023, 17:20
I was somewhat serious about it because of how long this Hamilton contract is taking.
He must be very doubtful about the team. They just have not shown the level fo shameless hunger to copy and make progress.
The suggestion is that the talking is about the side issues such as media engagement time, that sort of thing. Also, a suggestion without source, that we wants lots more money.

As for "shameless hunger to copy", copying doesn't make you in to a winning team. If they copy e.g. Red Bull, they'll always be behind Red Bull. They want to win and therefore have to develop their own ideas. Copying doesn't win championships.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

taperoo2k
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
17 Jul 2023, 18:43
ringo wrote:
17 Jul 2023, 17:20
I was somewhat serious about it because of how long this Hamilton contract is taking.
He must be very doubtful about the team. They just have not shown the level fo shameless hunger to copy and make progress.
The suggestion is that the talking is about the side issues such as media engagement time, that sort of thing. Also, a suggestion without source, that we wants lots more money.
Well it might be his last big contract in F1, if he's pushing for a lot more money then who can blame him?
As for "shameless hunger to copy", copying doesn't make you in to a winning team. If they copy e.g. Red Bull, they'll always be behind Red Bull. They want to win and therefore have to develop their own ideas. Copying doesn't win championships.
Copying happens up and down the paddock, it's why you see Newey with his clipboard looking at other teams cars.
The problem with trying to copy a car concept entirely is, you'll never be able to match the original concept in all the small details you don't see on the surface.

If Mercedes can understand how Red Bull's concept works, then it will likely inform them of what they might be missing in their design concept. Though tbh unless Mercedes (or another team) comes up with a design that matches or beats Red Bull, I expect the next couple of seasons will be dominated by Red Bull. Then 2026 will reset things again.

Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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taperoo2k wrote:
17 Jul 2023, 18:57
Copying happens up and down the paddock, it's why you see Newey with his clipboard looking at other teams cars.
The problem with trying to copy a car concept entirely is, you'll never be able to match the original concept in all the small details you don't see on the surface.
Copying an idea - say a wing endplate detail or a diffuser corner can be useful as you can easily check its effect on your own design and decide. Copying an entire concept is much less likely to be successful because, as you say, getting every last detail right is much more difficult - and you don't know which little detail might actually have a large effect on the car.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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ringo
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Copying can win you a championship. It's a short cut to reduce expense and buy more time to develop.
In fact in a cost cap era i am surprised there is not more copying. Copying is what's done in engineering and manufacturing to reduce costs and achieve schedule milestones on projects.
What should be done is copy, save time and money on R&D, then put the R&D resource and time into developing the copied car to find that unique edge to challenge redbull.
The team is so far behind, I am afraid that copying is all they can do to close the gap in the least time possible, then build from there.
For Sure!!

CHT
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Since 2020, Merc HPP has been designing engines that can run at higher temperature, which in turn help reduce the needs for cooling radiator, I believe this may be the reason for Merc zero sidepod design as it hope that the PU, together with its ability to run a tighter package, will give the team an advaantage which other teams will not be able to copy due to rule on engine development.

For a team like Merc, I am sure sizable budgets, resources and wind tunnel time must have been dedicated towards making the zero-side pod design work, which unfortunately did not yield the desire outcome.

Copying RBR aero design should offer similar performance gain as Mclaren and AM, but the gain may be limited by PU efficiency as it was designed for different type of aero package. Supposed if Honda PU has got some HP advantage over Merc PU, when aero efficiency between teams converges, RBR, with its Honda PU, will still hold some advantage.

In my view, RBR budget + AN aero knowlefge + Honda PU + Max will most likely dominate F1 for some years to come and by mid-2024, if Merc is still unable to close the gap on RBR, I reckon the team may throw in the towel and switch their focus on 2026 car instead of 2025.

"We've also benefitted from an investment that HPP have made on our behalf. They've worked to raise the operating temperature of the engine which eases the cooling burden on us because the hotter the fluid, the less radiator you need to cool it."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... e/4685459/

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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That high operating temp has been around since 2017 i believe. Other teams have since followed.

For Hamilton's contrcat increased diversity is one of the bigger parts I hear.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

CHT
CHT
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Re: 2023 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
18 Jul 2023, 03:08
That high operating temp has been around since 2017 i believe. Other teams have since followed.

For Hamilton's contrcat increased diversity is one of the bigger parts I hear.
Merc may have brought it to a totally different level, as explained by JA back in 2020. And I believe this championship-winning PU design concept was carried over to 2022 as well, which explains the zero-side pod. Merc without a clear PU advantage will make them most vulnerable in the new era of F1.

for 2023, I think the race is between AM vs Merc vs Mclaren, to see who can build the quicker car with the same engine, and hopefully, someone will be able to close the gap to RBR.